this post was submitted on 17 May 2024
501 points (91.7% liked)
Lefty Memes
4407 readers
13 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
~~The civil war was started over the economics of slavery, not the cancellation of slavery. The south wanted slaves to count towards votes, but not count towards taxes owed. The north refused to allow that, and they decided that slaves didn't count towards either. And since without slaves the southern states had much lower populations, that dramatically diminished their voting power. That is why the civil war started.~~
~~Edit:I guess you guys missed the whole 3/5ths comprimise~~
oh it was aaaaall about that! well thanks for explaining that so well...
it's weird all of the historical documents showing quite a few people were arguing about the morality of slavery... that members of congress came to blows over it and nobody mentioned the secret double secret reason of: it was aaaaall about votes because scubus saw a youtube video about it once....
This is revisionist, false, and stinks of the DotC.
The war was about the South keeping it's slaves, and it's ability to continue to subjugate an entire race of people. The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States states that "our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery." That only the "black race" is capable of being slaves. And in case you think this could be twisted somehow to support a rally against taxes, it goes on to say "There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union"
This is the opening volley off secession. It talks about commerce but not about taxes. It doesn't mention counting slaves as votes because they'd won that fight 60 years previously.
What's the doct? And yeah, the south feared the dissolution of slavery but from my understanding that was not what it was about for the north. Hence the 3/5ths compromise.
Daughters of the Confederacy
You realize that the 3/5ths compromise was added in 1787 at the constitutional convention right? That wasn't even remotely at issue during the civil war.
So it would seem. A bunch of the sources I was just googling seemed to confirm what I had learned in school, hence this debate. We were never taught about the dotc though, I take it they were a post war group of propagandists?
Post war group of propagandists is a pretty good way to put it.
They were responsible for many of the Confederate statues, and a lot of revisionist rhetoric has its seeds with them.
To be clear, they were effective. And the public school system still bears their mark today, actually it's probably getting worse.
The South seceded out of fears of abolition. Full stop. Losing the election in a landslide to a Republican was only the last in a huge pile of straws. Ft Sumpter wasn't even where the fighting started. People had been literally killing each other over the issue of continued/expanded slavery for several years already.
Any source claiming that the South had more nuanced reasons for leaving is either knowingly lying, or has been taken in by a lie.