this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
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“That’s all well and good, but what about one of the worst examples of it?”
You are never going to understand their point because you seem to have no desire to actually take any of this conversation seriously.
Capitalism was literally designed to continue the powers of a monarchy when it was obvious that people were revolting and that’s literally in the texts, it’s history. Much more regulated and “people first” societies exist, largely in Europe, and they thrive but you’re ignoring, that, too.
I’m sorry but I’ve tried the opposite. I feel that I replied with honesty, while your reply sounds like something you have already premade in your head. Name those European societies, I only see a bit less corruption (or just a bit more effort in hiding it), and also see a lot of “one rule fits all”. I’ve just been to Sweden and Norway, and different types of citizens have different types of complaints about it, and in no way shape or form they live sustainably. They also have a lot of issues regarding incorporating all the immigrants into their society. Where is this “socialist haven” you are talking about?
“Honesty”? Well maybe that’s step one: understand why those arguments you’ve been fed are disingenuous and not valid.
Those countries are, by and large, much happier than us in North America. They don’t experience nearly the levels of mass poverty that countries focused on money over citizens do, and if it weren’t for the death throes of capitalism injecting intense amounts of rightwing propoganda into the world right now they’d be even better off. Nearly half of America is below the official poverty line and many of the rest don’t realize how bad they have it because that line doesn’t move as quickly as it should.
They have safety nets for people in a bund and support structures for everyone. In the U.S. people need to refuse ambulances because they cost too much. Police kill people at an insane rate here, even in Canada, and while they are far from perfect in Europe they are at least not killing their citizens in the fucking street and in their homes. They have more green initiatives and they work together, using the EU, to push for real and important changes that capitalism does nothing to address. As the rightwing gets more and more extreme we do see more and more issues, of course, as the whole MO of those governments is to break down the government’s ability to function such that it can replaced by private business(although they’re also enjoying using the power to restrict the freedoms of minority groups such as the immigrants you mentioned).
Yes, it is not perfect, but if we’re arguing about that vs capitalism it’s a no-contest. Capitalism doesn’t even pretend to care about people, only keeping money, and therefore power, in the hands of those who least deserve it. That’s the whole game, and it’s awful for everyone.
Oh, and Venezuela? Yea, the CIA, in order to push the U.S.’s fucked up capitalist garbage, is constantly meddling in South America’s business. To “protect American interests” they’ve funded literal death squads for crying out loud.
If you want to talk about anarchy or adjacent options, those will just devolve into a completely unregulated disaster. There’s a reason we have government and arachists are just too fucking lazy to build something that works so they just want to destroy things that aren’t 100% perfect.
Norway. Finland. Iceland. Sweden. Portugal. Spain. France. Germany. etc.