this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2024
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When you argue for housing reform to legalize denser development in our cities, you quickly learn that some people hate density. Like, really hate density, with visceral disgust and contempt for any development pattern that involves buildings being tall or close together.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

Recently got to see Japan and it was eye opening. It’s by far the densest country I’ve been to and also the most functional. The public transit is amazing, as trains can get you literally everywhere, even between cities. There is also hardly a square of wasted space when it comes to housing. Buildings are tall and they are packed. The roads are mostly one way and narrow, except on a few major roads. The cars that do exist are small. I did appreciate seeing what is possible.

That said, the amount of people is intense and you do walk a lot between trains. On one day, I hit 12 miles, and that included lots of public transit. It becomes tiring a bit. If humans want to keep increasing in number, we should do it the Japanese way. But, I also wonder if we shouldn’t just stop breeding so much if we don’t like intense density. Those are basically our choices. If we want to keep breeding, low density is not an option.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago

Walking 12 miles would be a lot less tiring once you are used to it. I remember it took me 2 weeks to feel normal again when I started biking to work. Plus walking more throughout our days is going to keep us healthier.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The walking is a non issue after a few weeks, you won't even realize. I can't remember the last weekday I didn't get under 10k steps without doing any non essential walking. You'll be much healthier for it.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Unless you're in a wheelchair or on crutches in which case moving around a lot of Tokyo gets really ugly and taxis are both slow and quite expensive.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Have you been to Tokyo in a wheelchair? Tokyo is one of the most accessible major cities in the world. Its crazy how accessible it is (including public transport) compared to any other city in eg the EU or Asia.

No idea how accessible US cities are, but from what I gather, they are car centric, so it's a whole different way of moving.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

And get fucked if you cannot drive for one reason or another in a car-dependent city/sprawling amalgamated mess.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's not all of Japan that's like that. I live in rural Japan. It's a 50 minute walk to the nearest train station, the trains frequently don't run on time and are sometimes cancelled for parts of or whole days.

In dense Tokyo, people constantly have to deal with thin walls and petty neighbors. Concrete buildings come at a premium. Frequently, cigarette smoke coming in from windows or range hoods is an issue. There's definitely a lot given up with people getting constant shit from neighbors because their kids have the audacity to move and make noises kids make.

It's not all roses here. I definitely would urge anyone to try living in Japan for a while before actually writing about it.

Edit to add: love hotels are a thing in part because of how thin walls are in apartments. Central heat/AC is mostly not a thing here, if you're used to that. Clothes dryers are also not generally used outside of particularly cold/rainy areas. Housing is cheap in part because land may appreciate but houses/flats are not investments that will sell for more than you paid later; most things are still built to last about 30-40 years before the next generation will take them, gut them (or knock them down in the case of houses), and rebuild.

Edit2: forgot another gripe: technically/legally, most verandas/balconies are public space (as they are parts of fire escape routes) and you're not allowed to put anything like plants or furniture there. It varies based on building type and isn't super enforced (I grew a lot of plants when I lived in an apartment, but it was only me who would be negatively impacted if I needed to escape via my veranda).

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ooh now do hong Kong and realize the USA would be even worse.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I lived 6 months in HK and I loved the city, it's an amazing place. And that's from someone that doesn't like big cities like Paris, New York, LA, etc. I do like Singapore, London, Amsterdam and others but generally prefer the countryside. In my case the only sucky thing is we were in a shared flat but if you can get your hands on something even remotely decent and your own, you can have a great time there. Just spend all your time outside, the city never sleeps and eating out and entertainment is cheap. Small apartment is fine for your recovery/private time needs. Of course the political situation has changed a bit since I was there but that doesn't change anything to the urban planning/lifestyle argument. Again, from someone currently living in a village house and planning on going remote-ish at some point.