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Scientists push new paradigm of animal consciousness, saying even insects may be sentient (www.nbcnews.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

163 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Far more animals than previously thought likely have consciousness, top scientists say in a new declaration — including fish, lobsters and octopus.

Bees play by rolling wooden balls — apparently for fun. The cleaner wrasse fish appears to recognize its own visage in an underwater mirror. Octopuses seem to react to anesthetic drugs and will avoid settings where they likely experienced past pain.

All three of these discoveries came in the last five years — indications that the more scientists test animals, the more they find that many species may have inner lives and be sentient. A surprising range of creatures have shown evidence of conscious thought or experience, including insects, fish and some crustaceans.

That has prompted a group of top researchers on animal cognition to publish a new pronouncement that they hope will transform how scientists and society view — and care — for animals.

Nearly 40 researchers signed “The New York Declaration on Animal Consciousness,” which was first presented at a conference at New York University on Friday morning. It marks a pivotal moment, as a flood of research on animal cognition collides with debates over how various species ought to be treated.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Bold claim to go from REM in sleep-like state to dreams and consciousness, and the original paper is not making that claim.

A good example is how they are able to recognise when certain prey is acting odd, deduce it’s injured and drop their stealthy approach for a more direct one. They’re also capable of remembering their environment and using indirect and often complex paths to sneak up on prey.

All of this seems rather possible even with basic learning mechanisms on molecular level. Not sure why you would claim that this need consciousness. But if you have a paper on this topic I would be more than interested to read them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

No papers that are actually concrete. Most of it is just speculation.

I'm not a scientist, and for me personally it's enough to make me spend a bit longer thinking before immediately dismissing all insects as mindless automatons. Most probably are simple biological machines. Jumping spiders are however massive outliers in terms of insect intelligence, and a cursory Google search will provide a wealth of evidence for it.

I personally would also go as far as believing that they dream. I just don't believe there's a reasonable explanation for the REM like state other than some form of dreaming, even if rudimentary.

I'm not going to state that jumping spiders are fully conscious as 100% fact, there's not enough proof for that. But they do have a proven ability to learn, and an ability to make somewhat complex plans. And all I'm trying to say is that we need more research before dismissing them so certainly.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Not a scientist my self, but I studies biology and neuroscience more specifically - just left the field. I will look more into jumping spiders, since it's sounds interesting and I was not really aware that they are that different from other spiders. Now I'm more curious and I definitely agree that we need more research in general.