this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
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What about the loss of habitat, anyone who knows even a little bit about birds, at least in the western hemisphere, know that thousands of species only mate in certain areas in certain times of years. The loss of habitats for mating, the loss of food sources in the remaining habitats from pesticides, and the fact that many pesticides and other pollutants LITERALLY DEGRADE BIRD SHELLS AND KILL THEM BEFORE THEY HATCH
House cats shouldn't be putting a fucking dent in bird populations and it's both absurd to think they're the real threat and disingenuous to the causes of ill that plague our ecology
I'm not shitting on you, OP, but in definitely shitting on the person who made this infographic and I'm shitting on the people who continue to push the myth that cats are the leading cause of loss in bird populations. They may kill many birds, but they're not the reason we're losing them. Not at all by far.
Cat's shouldn't be putting a dent in the bird population because they shouldn't be outside. They're an invasive species that can definitely destroy local ecosystems.
Yes habitat destruction is reducing bird population, but that doesn't excuse the irresponsibility of cat owners that let their cats outside. All that accomplished is creating two problems.
I don't understand why people are so defensive about this. Study after study shows that cats are fucking terrible for native ecosystems.
Not just that, outdoor cats live much shorter lives. There is literally no reason to put a cat outside unless you hate your pet and your ecosystem.
It's irresponsible and stupid, but my sweet baby would never!
Or it's not fair to keep them inside all day! Okay build an enclosure outside they can go into like a responsible owner.
I don't even know what all to say to the chucklefuck that thinks it's fine that the Scottish Wildcat is being bred to extinction. It's okay though because that's just evolution.
Humanity was a fucking mistake
I didn't say it's fine. I said it's the only problem when you made the grand claim that domestic cats were basically stealing their food source.
Because you made it sound like they're dying, when they're really just hybridising. Both are forms of extinction in a sense, but one is a lot worse than the other.
And again, they don't even live in the same damn parts of the country.
Americans like you need put in your place and reminded that the whole world does not revolve about you and your country's circumstances.
Yes only in America are wild cats threatening native cat's food sources. At least you're able to see America from your pedestal.
You told me, that the domestic cat must be eating the Scottish Wildcat's lunch.
We were specifically talking about that species at that point. Don't try to spin it.
Realistically, though, that's no different from blaming climate change on plastic straws.
Except plastic straws don't really do anything to accelerate climate change and cats can decimate bird populations
Except plastic straws aren't actively hunting marine creatures.
Domesticated cats are not native to north america and western Europe, and people should be more responsible in how they care for their pets, especially the ones that are invasive fucking species.
Also, 2 things can be true. It's possible that bird populations are being decimated by ecological destruction as well as the mass breeding and free roaming of invasive predators introduced by humans.
Edit: clarified that I meant domesticated cats
"Cats are not native to north america and western Europe"
You're just wrong, at least about the Europe part. There's literally a species known as the Scottish Wildcat. And last I checked, Scotland was in western Europe.
Can Americans stop spreading patently false information based on their Amero-centric worldview? Please and thank you.
Fantastically, a wild cat isn't a domestic cat! Wow! Who knew!
I'm not american
The discussion involved housecats, I assumed it would be obvious that I was referring to housecats, not fucking wildcats
Housecats are native to Egypt and are descendants of the African wildcat
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/free-ranging-and-feral-cats.pdf
https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440
https://www.tilburguniversity.edu/current/press-releases/cats-must-stay-indoors-protect-wildlife
Stop thinking that things that make you feel bad about your world view are "patently false information based on an amero-centric worldview". Please and fucking thank you
Facts and sources, better downvote because that doesn't match my vibes about my outdoor cats lmfao
You edited your comment, so don't get snarky about me not accounting for an edit you made after I replied.
Anyways,
I mentioned wildcats because they are similar to domestic cats and the existence of them here disprove the "it's not their natural habitat" talking point.
The Scottish Wildcat is so overwhelmingly similar to the domestic cat that they can interbreed.
And this fact might entertain you: both types of wildcat mentioned are considered Felis Silvestris. They're really not that different.
I don't care about some American publication talking about cats as that is obviously going to be specific to America, and it's claims of invasiveness do not apply to many other places, or are such a small concern it's not considered.
Here's a UK source, a bit more applicable to where I live:
http://web.archive.org/web/20200206053916/www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/
That's the checks notes Royal Society for the Protection of Birds noting that cats are not causing issues for bird populations. Give it a read.
I edited one word of my comment because I had another reply from someone who misunderstood what I was referring to, so i clarified so there wouldnt be further confusion, not to give myself an excuse to be snarky.
I've read the article you've provided a number of times previously and while yes, it does indicate that there is no scientific evidence for my claim, it is limited to the UK.
I don't see what interbreed-ability has to do with invasiveness?
I provided 3 sources, one was American, the others were from Oxford (also in the UK last I checked) and Tillburg (Netherlands), both discussing the EU broadly
Here is another study from the checks notes British Ecological Society which concludes in part
If you're not going to read the evidence I'm providing, while saying I'm only providing americentric evidence, then I'm going to respectfully abandon this thread. I apologize for the snark, that was uncalled for.
Edit: formatting only
Wild Cats Of North America:
Bobcat
Canada Lynx
Puma / Mountain Lion / Cougar
Ocelot
Jaguarundi
Jaguar
Margay
I was specifically referring to domesticated cats not being native to these regions since that was what is being discussed.
I'd argue a housecat and a bobcat share a similar ecological niche. Haven't the housecats simply replaced the bobcats that were largely removed by humans?
I find it weird that Americans never let their cats outside. I mean, they're outside animals.
Would you stay indoors forever? No?
You don't let your cats out for the same reason zoos don't let their bears out into your fucking neighborhood ya goddamn dingus. They don't belong there and can do serious damage to the local fauna.
also outdoor cats live an average of 3-5 years.
Indoor cats live can for 15-20+.
So sure, if you are pro-premature cat death. Let your pet cat outside.
They don't cause serious ecological harm. Even the fucking bird preservation or whatever body says cats don't have a serious impact on local bird populations.
Oh and they do belong outside, actually. They come in and go out as they please.
Most cats are outdoor here, and live a damn sight longer than that. My own cat is 7 and counting. I have a relative who had an 18 year old cat.
Maybe lifespan is different here because we don't have 10-lane motorways every 10 meters in every direction.
And for the record, if possible it is better for bears to be, well, outdoors in their natural habitat rather than a zoo.
Hey guys we also killed most other predators, but it's okay because my cat can live longer and kill more birds
Hey, since you don't believe me about cats not causing massive ecological harm to local bird populations:
http://web.archive.org/web/20200206053916/www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/
It's also funny you attribute cat's longevity to the death of predators, and not the fact that there are native cats here and so cats very much, well, adapted to local predators.
Because we're more responsible at this one thing apparently. They're invasive. You want to let them outside take them to their native habitat.
There are literally wild cats you can find, especially here.
This pretty much is their natural habitat. π
But yeah tell me again how we're all irresponsible for letting our cats breathe fresh air because they're "iNvAsIvE".
So you release your cat in the wild to kill the food source for native cats?
Talking about my own country specifically here:
They're not really in competition. They're mainly concentrated in the pretty much unpopulated highlands, whereas domestic cats owned by humans are mainly concentrated in the central belt.
Scottish Wildcats are endangered technically, but not in terms of competition from domestic cats killing them or taking their food. Rather, they're interbreeding (because they're so similar!). That's just evolution at the end of the day.
Even though they're still considered endangered because "pure" wildcats population is reducing, the wildcats are still living and creating offspring, some of which are still wild cats, even if they're not purebred "wildcat".
So irresponsible cat owners let their cats outside and didn't neuter or spay them. Cool beans.
It's just evolution lol
It's irresponsible to not neuter or spay a housecat, yes. I agree. Most do but some irresponsible owners don't.
It doesn't change the fact that the only real danger domestic cats pose to wildcats is interbreeding. Which isn't really a danger.
What they certainly aren't doing is what you claimed: taking their food source. It's just not a concern.
Yet the subject was about what cats do to bird populations and you hopped in with your cat fucking gotcha. Good job in derailing the topic.
Aw, are you sad now? You can't think of anything else so you complain about the topic being changed ever so slightly to letting cats outside (still very much related)?
Anyways, you are just as responsible as me for switching topic.
And that's how a conversation typically works. If you strictly never even slightly deviate the conversation will fall flat on it's face in two minutes.
Also, I addressed the bird thing elsewhere. You should see it, since it's a direct reply to you, the high-horse shining example of global animal population ethics American.
There's more forest in Europe than there was in 1970.
That doesn't un-kill the animals that died from deforestation, and repopulation can take years or decades.