this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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I use Arch btw
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Arch dosn't break by itself, i've used bunch of Arch installations and every time it broke it was because of bad manipulation, not pacman -syu
Arch DEFINITELY breaks itself. See the whole "arch update broke grub" dilemma
Have you tried it or are you just spreading misinformation ?
Arch breaking grub has happened to me twice. Second time I couldn't even recover the install.
You learn a lot of good practices by using arch, eg a separate home partitjon, git repositories for your config files, maintaining a clean package tree etc. Installing Arch is also really useful for noobs like me to learn some Linux basics.
I use Fedora, btw.
What do you mean by that, specifically? I looked that up online and maybe I'm a bit dumb, but I didn't find anything that made much sense
I don't know if that's a widely recognized term.
Pacman used to be really bad at removing unneeded dependencies. I think pretty much every package manager has this facility now. For instant apt auto remove.
Suppose you installed gnome to try it out, gnome installs like 1000000 packages. The thing about some of those dependencies is that they're really useful. It's not uncommon for another package you have installed to use it as an optional dependency. In that case it doesn't get flagged for autoremoval when you uninstall gnome.
When you apply this logic a couple layers deep they start to compound.
Also libraries and random python scripts tend to just exist forever in your system long after you used it lol.
I started developing the habit of checking what dependencies are being installed and to uninstall immediately when I realize I don't need it.
This logic applies to language specific managers like cargo or pip too.
They all have really good tooling to figure out leaves, orphaned nodes etc. I just didn't start using those until I got into the arch hype.
I see. I suppose figuring out which things to get rid of takes some getting used to, but thank you for the advice!
Yeah, you will invariably remove something crucial haha. The nice thing with arch is that usually you can fix it without too much fuss.
Me learning to use Linux was like teaching a child that can't feel pain to not touch fire.
I'm quite excited but also mildly worried about Arch. I am currently on EndeavourOS, so I'm used to day-to-day usage of an Arch-based system, but I do worry about not following some best practices that screw me over in the long run during the install or forgetting some crucial security things. I do believe 95% of what I could mess up is going to be covered in the install guide, but who knows what I'll overlook. And I know Archinstall exists, but I might as well stay on EOS if I was gonna use that, as I primarily intend this to be a learning opportunity. We'll see how things go!
I agree. I think that's why nix-os is getting so popular these days.
I love the idea of declarative system builds even beyond just reproducability. The idea that you can essentially make your own distro without much difficulty is really cool.
Plus all the benefits of roll backs, light backups, etc.
Plus if you can dig deep enough you can craft a system that never breaks by pinning certain versions.
One of these days I want to check it out. As well as LFS. Oh but for the want of time.
About NixOS specifically, I actually made a post on [email protected] and overall the feedback seemed to be that Nix is a mixed bag, and that unless you want to duplicate your system a bunch of times, it's probably smarter to stick to Arch, and a few people said I should use immutable Fedora for some reason despite that not being the question.
I was among one of the grub fiasco victims. Thank goodness they rolled it back pretty fast and I knew how to chroot.
A grub breaking thingy happened to me too.
I was saved by having multiboot, with every OS having their own GRUB version installed. (just selected one using the motherboard's interface)
The problem occurred when, after
pacman -Syu, I read notes in the output, one of which hinted I would want to update GRUB and went - "Sure, I'll try the new GRUB update" and ran GRUB update.When it didn't startup after a restart, I just used the debian's GRUB to login to the OS in question, downgraded GRUB, reinstalled GRUB and then ran
pacman -Syuagain.I feel like mine wasn't the problem instance that goes on around the web, mostly because:
I have not experienced it but half of the arch users on reddit seem to have experienced it. Also it's not a continuous problem but rather a problem with a certain arch and grub version. However the fact it happened once (to many people) means it can happen a second time
@Titou @Nisaea Well, in my case it once broke due to a conflict between pahole and nvidia that caused errors. Games would crash every now and then. I was going crazy until I found that the update broke nvidia :}
How did you installed it ? Official arch repo or self compiled ? And what nvidia drivers are you using ? Nouveau or proprietary one ?
@Titou proprietary drivers, dkms version.
Official repos.
Both my friend and I experienced this, a few minutes later pahole was reverted to previous version on the repos and the update was delayed until fixes were made.
I migrated from nvidia to amd last summer and no issues since then ( a few crashes in Minecraft, its the only game capable of crashing the GPU, dont know why or how ).
Conflict issues is not arch-exclusive(happenned to me on debian sid months ago) but glad to heard you switched to amd
That's anecdotal evidence but good for you!