this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
550 points (97.7% liked)

News

23014 readers
4 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Think the point is the criteria for disqualification and if there is a determination and who must make it.

Under 35? Ok, a state can clearly see that they are under 35, it's not a judgement, it's just a boring fact.

Not a natural born citizen? Again, a sinple fact.

Failed to appropriately follow that state's procedures to get on the ballot? Again, local determination is easy.

But if the only disqualification proposed is 14th amendment, needs federal government (and evidently Congress specifically, which I didn't expect) to determine. The states cannot unilaterally declare a federal candidate to be an insurrectionest, no matter how obvious it may seem. If it is so obvious the federal government should have acted, buy if they don't, there isn't a judicial remedy.

In short, just vote against the dude. The three states were all symbolic only anyway, They weren't going to sway the primaries and especially not the general election. Use this energy to motivate folks to go vote against him, that is the only remedy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If we can't disqualify someone without an act of Congress after they've become president-elect then section 3 is either a dead letter or a suicide pact. There's also the problem of why specifically enjoin congress to remove the disability but not to impose it? The reasoning they used to come to these conclusions is twisted and obviously a result of working backwards from a conclusion they already wanted.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well I'll agree that I was surprised they said Congress specifically, but I at least do think it'd have to be a federal matter, rather than state's discretion.

Note this was unanimous. The liberal justices also agreed a state shouldn't do this. It would be a mess if you opened that up. The GOP would absolutely game that if it were allowed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

In a well functioning version of the US that would mean Congress refuses to certify their state election results. There's also the problem that this isn't going away. This kind of leadership crisis has to dealt with as early as possible and we're kicking the can down the road because we're afraid of the consequences. (The liberal judges inferred as much in their separate opinion)

But a look at history tells us that the further a crisis like this gets kicked down the road, the bloodier the resolution is when it happens, and the long term situation just gets worse too. The ultimate in can kicking was the French Revolution which saw mass murder of commoners in areas backing the king, and mob warfare in the Capitol.

So while we might weather some limited political violence and a lot of protests now, in the future that ratio flips

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In a well functioning version of the US that would mean Congress refuses to certify their state election results.

So now we get into a world where the party in control of congress gets to pick and choose based on whether they agree with the results from that given state. So in this scenario, a likely outcome would have been congress rejecting the electors from Maine, Colorado, and Illinois for daring to ban Trump, and congress happily certifying electors from red states that banned Biden.

This most recent impeachment is strong evidence that fair administration of rules and procedures is the furthest thing from their minds, and it's all a power play. The last thing congress needs is more well recognized levers to manipulate. Unless of course that lever requires 2/3rds majority, which seems to be fairly hard to get unless everyone really agrees. However, in that case, they'd never pull it on someone like Trump, with half the congress compelled to 100% stand behind him no matter what.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

So, it actually gets even more arcane than that. If enough elections are refused, Congress elects the president in a ballot by state caucuses. So, for example, all Representatives and Senators for Arizona would vote among themselves to see who Arizona votes for.

This is all contingent on actual representation. If we had continued the ratio of representation from the 1790's we'd have ~10,000 representatives. Even at half that we'd have far more independence from party discipline.

Everything that's happening now is the result of self inflicted wounds from the 1900's. In this specific case Congress limited the size of the House of Representatives in the period between the world wars. Their official reason was because it would be hard to fit more representatives in the Capitol building. Like there wasn't (and isn't) a way to cast votes without being in the same building...