this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2024
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Survey of 154 scholars places 45th president behind even ‘historically calamitous chief executives’ linked to civil war

Donald Trump finished 45th and rock bottom of a list ranking US presidents by greatness, trailing even “historically calamitous chief executives” who failed to stop the civil war or botched its aftermath.

Worse for the likely Republican nominee this year, his probable opponent, Joe Biden, debuted at No 14.

“Biden’s most important achievements may be that he rescued the presidency from Trump, resumed a more traditional style of presidential leadership and is gearing up to keep the office out of his predecessor’s hands this fall,” Justin Vaughn and Brandon Rottinghaus, the political scientists behind the survey, wrote in the Los Angeles Times.

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 10 months ago (4 children)

People who should be lower: Jackson, Wilson, and Reagan. Fuck those guys.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Reagan can be next to last. He's done more damage to modern America than all others but Trump

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Except Republicans were polled as well, and then the rankings combined, whereas e.g. Trump is more universally hated by all sides (independents too).

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

He was tough on the USSR, at least. Obama and Biden not arming Ukraine enough before the conflicts caused Russia to be more successful than it has any right to be

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Obama tried, they passed multiple aid packages. Trump withheld the aid, which was the cause of his first impeachment.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Obama could have directly slapped Russia down in 2014, but didn't do shit. Russia was not punished enough and got more bold in 2022

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Why is it Obama or Biden's responsibility to arm a foreign country?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Because for once, America is helping against an imperialist aggressor rather than encouraging it. It also happens to be in our best interest to show to other dictators how bad an idea it is.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Because the US disarmed Ukraine in exchange for security promises. Time to actually live up to your promises

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Russia guaranteed Ukraine security for disarmament, the UK and US made assurances.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Well, it's still shitty since everyone bullied Ukraine to disarm and then Russia invaded and the arm shipments are not enough to stop Russia from continuing to take land

Iran and North Korea are better allies than the US and that sucks for global diplomacy

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

oh so why don't we ACTUALLY DEFEND instead of just sending fuck tons of money are arms? like i said, this shit could be over tomorrow if anyone really wanted it to be. to many people are making too much money off of it. war is good for business incase you haven't noticed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

I'm not saying we shouldn't, I'm saying it's better to send arms than not to send them

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Trump's so much worse than any of those guys. He's literally promising to end democracy in the USA and to imprison his political opponents if he wins the next election. None of those others went that far.

Not to mention him being convicted of massive fraud while in office and fomenting a riot against the capitol to try to prevent the democratic election process from occurring. I mean this stuff is absolutely nuts and unlike anything any other president has done.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Jackson committed genocide against native Americans, so I think that's worse.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I could go on and on about all of Jackson's atrocities from stealing babies to skinning Native people alive to make bridle reins. But I think it's enough to say that Jackson was Hitlers wet dream. He quoted him often and even ripped off Jackson's speech called the Final Solution to the Indian Problem. Yea, Jackson goes last even over Trump.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

jackson not being dead last just completely ruins the entire integrity of the list. how can genocide against native americans be better than trump? seriously?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I suppose the argument might be that Trump attempted to ferment a war, and still to this day attempts to do so, that would kill his own countrymen.

Which while morally probably isn't worse than crimes against natives, is probably worse for a president to do?

Also of course if Trump gets his way he'll start world war 3, (because that's a vote winter I'm sure) which would kill a lot more people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

then by all rights lincoln should probably be dead last, a war in which most if not all causalities were americans, regardless if at the time they "werent"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I mentioned in a comment a bit further up but thought I'd offer it here too:

Trump also committed genocide against poor people by lying to them that a global pandemic was not airborne, when it actually was. In the Bob Woodsworth interview, he admitted it. In advance. He KNEW, and he did it anyway.

Plus he led a coup to overthrow the nation so... there's that too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

that's worse than literal genocide of an entire race of people? do you really think so?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Not necessarily, but my point was to try and guess what they may have been considering. And if the absolute number of people killed is larger... that could have swayed their thinking there.

Also, you expect more from adults - so if we really have learned from our history and thus are more culturally experienced now vs. hundreds of years ago, then is killing people nowadays "worse" or "better" than to do so back then? It's really quite a shitty situation that we are in, and my main point is that it it not like we are comparing genocide to no genocide, but rather one form of genocide vs. another form of genocide.

And yet... at the risk of offending you further, an argument can be made that indeed killing your OWN PEOPLE really is on a somewhat different level, as far as genocide is concerned, than killing the OTHER, outside-of-group people.

Not that any of this is remotely "good", when we are comparing dead last to second to dead last. But... it is somewhat understandable I mean, that the entire list may not need to be thrown out, just b/c the two last places both have genocidal people in them, but with whichever one or the other happens to be one rank higher or lower. :-(

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

That is Trump's favorite president unsurprisingly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Yeah honestly I fucking hate Trump but Jackson should be the worst simply because of this. This kind of voids the entire reputation of these scholars in my view.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago

Trump also committed genocide against poor people by lying to them that a global pandemic was not airborne, when it actually was. In the Bob Woodsworth interview, he admitted it. In advance. He KNEW, and he did it anyway.

Plus he led a coup to overthrow the nation so... there's that too.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I think part of the problem is intent versus what he got done so far.

If you want some ammunition in your statement though, add in the bungling of COVID and his anti-vax leadership he probably killed at least a couple hundred thousand Americans.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

can they just be tied for last?