this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2024
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Missouri Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft said that while he didn’t want to do it, he had to remind people of how “severe” the situation is.

A top Republican official in Missouri is threatening to remove President Joe Biden from appearing on the ballot as retaliation for the determination in two other states that Donald Trump doesn't qualify because he "engaged in insurrection."

"What has happened in Colorado & Maine is disgraceful & undermines our republic," Missouri Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft wrote on the social media site X on Friday. "While I expect the Supreme Court to overturn this, if not, Secretaries of State will step in & ensure the new legal standard for @realDonaldTrump applies equally to @JoeBiden!"

Ashcroft's post came shortly after the Supreme Court agreed to review a decision by Colorado's high court that found Trump could be barred from the state's primary ballot because of his actions leading up to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You should actually be more worried that violent insurrection becomes the norm.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Historically, if take away someone's democratic option to express themselves then they become more likely to turn to violence.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Actually, the far right are more likely to turn to violence every time they lose, period. That's always been the way of things. You're conflating the Left's values with the Right. The Right do not care about Democracy. Have you never sat through one of those fascist fucks "we're not a Democracy, we're a Republic" defense of minority tyranny? They care about winning at all costs. They're as likely to turn violent is they lose 90/10 as if they lose because their leader was convicted of a felony or taken off a ballot for legitimate reasons.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If fascist win after having Trump removed from the ballot then it makes it even harder to legitimately argue that a particular candidate should stay on a future ballot.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If fascists take over the US, there will never be another legitimate election whether or not we take the correct legal action prior to that point.

But we're talking Beer Hall Putsch leniency on Trump, and all that does is empower the actual fascists to take more extreme action knowing they will never face consequences. People are terrified that if they don't give in to fascists, fascists won't play fair.

Guess what? Fascists already won't play fair.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

But when the good guys don't play fair they can become fascists.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Sure. Show me proof the good guys aren't playing fair taking an insurrectionist off the Ballot because the Constitution demands it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

See the conclusions of 2 states and the Senate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Preponderance of evidence. The first state concluded the opposite. And the court system seems the right place to challenge.

Or are you suggesting all 50 states need to unanimously agree or he gets off? Because that goes to being a higher burden of proof instead of a lower one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm suggesting the Senate decides on impeachment for insurrection and all 50 states abide by that decision.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Why? Congress is only a law enforcement body in exactly one scenario. That's not what congress was made for.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Congress, the Senate and the presidency were made together, each checking and balancing the other.

Of course they are the ones who rule on eligibility.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Congress, the Senate and the presidency were made together, each checking and balancing the other.

The 14th Amendment didn't exist when the country was founded. When the 14th Amendment did exist, its authors recognized the real risk of Congress being complicit in treason. In fact, Trump's initial defense is that "President" isn't an officer and that this only involved Congress.

Are you telling me that the authors of the 14th Amendment thought "if the traitors manage to get a majority in congress, then we don't remove them for treason anymore"?

...it sounds like you're following this idealistic and oversimplified view of government. The dissenting judges in the Colorado case brought up a few reasonable arguments, but the ones you're citing aren't them. Nowhere in the Constitution does Congress get the right to prevent a candidate from running for president. In fact, THAT is intentional because Congress is a political body.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

The 14th Amendment didn't exist when the country was founded.

Yeah. The clue is in the name.

"if the traitors manage to get a majority in congress, then we don't remove them for treason anymore"?

If traitors become the majority, are they still traitors?

Nowhere in the Constitution does Congress get the right to prevent a candidate from running for president.

But the Senate did have that opportunity, and didn't reach majority.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Whose democratic options to express themselves is being taken away?

Statistically it is non-white people, so why is it white people who are turning to violence?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Whose democratic options to express themselves is being taken away?

MAGA voters.

why is it white people who are turning to violence

Because they are MAGA voters?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How are MAGA voters losing the democratic options to express themselves?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

? Not being able to vote for their preferred candidate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)
  1. Are you aware the Constitution sets out requirements for eligibility for president? Just because your feelings say you really want a particular person, it doesn't mean you have a constitutional right to vote for them. For example, maybe I really want Arnold Schwarzenegger for president. Just because I prefer Arnold that does not mean he can be president.

  2. Trumpers could vote for Trump in 2020 and they still staged a violent insurrection. So your point is both stupid and moot.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you aware the Constitution sets out requirements for eligibility for president?

Yes. Trump was impeached for incitement of insurrection but acquitted in the Senate. That's the constitutional rules being followed.

Just because your feelings say you really don't want a particular person, it doesn't mean you have a constitutional right to exclude them.

Trumpers could vote for Trump in 2020 and they still staged a violent insurrection.

Consider how violent Trumpers could get if they couldn't vote.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

acquitted in the Senate

Factually incorrect, either you don't know what is going on, or you're lying. The Senate failed to remove him as president, that is all. There is an ongoing criminal case during which Trump was indicted this past year. There has been no acquittal, contrary to your claim.

Just because your feelings say you really don't want a particular person, it doesn't mean you have a constitutional right to exclude them.

I agree 100%. I don't want Biden or any of the other GOP candidates either. And yet, none of them have so far staged and supported an insurrection. I only think candidates should be discluded based on law.

I'm logically consistent, which is something you are not capable of understanding.

Consider how violent Trumpers could get if they couldn't vote.

Well, Trumpers are extremely delusional and very stupid. So, they will get very violent, even though Trumpers have the most to lose and least to gain from an actual Civil War 2.

One massive trumper delusion is that they are the only ones with guns. In reality, leftists, anarchists, anti-fascists, and communists have a ridiculous amount of firepower stored.

The big difference is that Trumpers paint a big target on themselves and their homes, flying Trump flags and wearing trump merch. Trumpers are not ready to fight a war against an enemy they can't find. They're like the Redcoats of the American Revolution, they are big loud and meant to intimidate, they are not ready to fight an actual bloody war of attrition against an enemy they cannot see.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

The Senate failed to remove him as president, that is all.

The charges of insurrection were not upheld.

There is an ongoing criminal case

So not yet found guilty.

I agree 100%. I don't want Biden or any of the other GOP candidates either.

It is very wrong that unaccountable corporations are gatekeepers of the presidency.

I only think candidates should be discluded based on law.

Hard agree. This is my whole argument. Insurrection needs to be strongly defined to avoid future manipulation. We cannot (yet) conclude that Trump was involved in insurrection.

I'm logically consistent,

Me too.

Trumpers are extremely delusional and very stupid. So, they will get very violent ...

Agree with this and all you wrote following.