this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2024
196 points (96.7% liked)

politics

18966 readers
5 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The full speech livestream is here

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not having even the basic understanding of the law? How moronic of you.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Basic understanding of law means a basic understanding of due process and how everyone is entitled to it. Not just the people you agree with. Denying due process to those you oppose makes you the same type of dictator liberals claim to hate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes but you don't seem to understand that due process in this case doesn't mean he needs a criminal trial and conviction for him to be removed.

Read the 14th amendment then tell me where it mentions "convicted of insurrection" - it does not. It only mentions participation, or even supporting someone who participated.

Trump is receiving the due process as we speak right now.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If there was a waiver of due process it would be stated.

But section 14.1 of the 14th amendment reads

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This precedes section 14.3 which addresses Disqualification from Holding Office. 14.1 due process precedes all other sections of the amendment to establish a requirement for due process in all other sections.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You have my upvote for actually going through the Amendment. Respect.

However, you're still ignoring the point that due process is occurring (at least in Colorado, Maine was definitely dodgy). Trump does not need to be criminally convicted of insurrection, it just needs to be decided in court that he meets the bar of being disqualified from office. The Colorado Supreme Court decided Trump should be removes from the ballot, now the US Supreme Court will decide - that is due process.

Being disqualified under 14.3 has a slightly different set of standards to meet than a criminal conviction for insurrection. Arguably he should also face a criminal charge, and a conviction would make the disqualification a sure thing.

It's a bit like civil vs criminal. If you're convicted of a crime, then the civil trial is basically a slam dunk. However, OJ famously got off on the criminal murder charge, then lost the civil trial for killing his victims. Trump being convicted of the crime of insurrection is a separate type of proceedings to removing him from the ballot for being involved with insurrection.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The amendment specifically says it's the responsibility of Congress to determine eligibility of ballot access, and it only requires a simple majority. Therefore only Congress can proceed with due process, SCOTUS is likely to rule that states do not have standing, or the state courts do not have the authority to rule on this case.

Dont get me wrong, Im not defending the POS or his actions. Ive seen him as a shady, POS, conman since the 80s. But many dems are gonna be in for quite a shock when it doesnt play out like theyve been told it will. And all the ones calling to bypass due process because its someone they oppose is insane.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Where is the part that says only Congress can decide to remove by a simple majority? My understanding is that Congress can decide to put someone back on the ballot by a 2/3 majority, but it would be the courts that decide to remove them in lawsuits filed by citizens.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've seen it on several legal websites, but I've not found how they interpreted that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Unfortunately the problem with "legal websites" is that they generally know enough about the law to push a message without having to provide anything to back it up.

That's not a dig at you or your opinion, just something I find frustrating.