this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2023
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Ooh, I missed that era completely i joined in when manhwa had become the name for Korea webtoons. There were only Manga to read here. It was when I started to read online that I found out manhwa also exists.
First time I read anything from Korea was a a manhwas called lookism, I really liked it. Because I only stumble over the good manhwas did I pretty much assumed there were very few bad ones π
I don't think I have ever read a "true" manhwa.
Yes! depth in a character is everything, if I can't see any kind of progress then I get extremely bored. I am ok with them being edgy if they will grow up over time and there is potential in them as characters. But every time I have tried a popular manhua do I just get irritated. All the adults are so petty, they can't see the forest for the trees. If everyone is like that from the start then will it ever change for the better? And the world of the story is usually equally bland. They take a concept that someone else came up with but removes all the interesting parts about it.
They do focus a lot on games. But they are pretty big in e sports so I am not surprised. But I actually like the game theme a bit more than the iseki theme(but both has been over used). Many times does iseki not make the plot better, it just feels like a plot device that isn't used to make the story more interesting, like how fan service works. The person is clumsy and fall over all the time because ppl want to see some panties not because of something meaning full for the story. Like how Velma would drop her glasses and then the bad guys would fall over her while she search for them. A very silly example but then it is used correctly for the story in my opinion.
I think many isekies actually could just have been a game world or the Mc could had just lost their memories but I think the author kinda want to escape to another world and the reader likes to read it because they feel the same way.
I am fine with 3d props too if it is done well, but it could just be me, I have been reading too many manhwas recently with the same props and they all use it heavily so i see it right away. It has become a sport "find the 3d props" π
Oooh Lookism - that manhwa scared me so much as a kid, I dropped that one too early. I might pick it up again - how is the series? Is it still going?
Yes lol. I can maaaybe extend my suspension of disbelief and accept teenagers acting edgy and impulsive like that. But every character? The adults? The elders? Everyone going "YOU DARE???!!" for everything. So stupid smh
haha I agree about both Isekai becoming more of a lazy plot-device, but I also feel it for Game-themed manhwas. That said, I am kinda okay with them using it as a plot device, as long as it is not done lazily. If it's just a feature that gives MC some OP, then meh.
I actually think the opposite! I think many game-style manhwas have same tropes as isekai but rebranded so it feels different from isekai. But modern isekais have a lot of mechanics similar to game-themed manhwas. Both game-theme and isekai are basically escapism at the end.
The talk of props reminds me - the mansions are always the same! In general, so many Manhwas have the same corridors and buildings and architecture it feels stale at this point
I remember it as it had an ending but I checked a random page now and it says "ongoing". It was released back in 2014 so I am surprised if this is true. But you should check it out. I really liked it. Maybe I should read it again and see if I still like it as much :D
Oh yea I think the game theme can be very lazy and over done too in many shapes and forms. Like the tower type. Travel back in time so they know all the games secrets (still like this one tho), was first a skinny scared shut in but ended up finding something in the game that made him the greatest that transferred over to real life and so on. But why I talked more about my disappointment with isekai is because pretty much all of the popular and unpopular Mangas is isekai now days. Almost all starts with "woooa is this like those isekai mangas/anime where I am transferred to another world" and then God speaks to them or send them a message. it can be pretty hard finding one that isn't an isekai (that I haven't read). gamer manhwas is pretty easy to ignore, their bookcover screams gamer theme haha. I actually take breaks from gamer manhwas and only read one at a time otherwise I would also get tired of them π
But I think you misunderstood me. I meant that isekai is often like a game with levels, skills, dungeons, exp and so on or the person act like they lost their memory and pretend to be that person without the consequences of being found out. So it could had been a game instead or about a person with amnesia. It is not always a problem, but it kinda removes the reason for them to be "transported". Sometimes I forget they were until much later when they maybe tell someone or I read the title of the Manga π I think they should use their knowledge from their own world. Otherwise it doesn't matter if they are transported or not (in my opinion), and not only the info about that world if they had read the novel. Those kinds work great when they figure out that their knowledge is not that great because the author left out a lot of the world in their writing so they try to work around that. I like to read isekies where the person was passionated about something and use that passion in the other world to save the world or to just make a good/safe environment for a lot of ppl. Like ppl who were researchers or those who loved guns so much they can recreate guns with what exist in this new world with some modifications. I like Mangas with a lot of world building and character progress :D for example building up a ruined small country to be the greatest even if it becomes a cult and Mc is so misunderstood that the ppl think it is all his doing but in reality it is they who do "great" (for them) things by over thinking everything Mc says and does, it is very funny and he thinks they are scary because he can tell they are obsessed π (forgot the name of the Manga sadly).
In short I think most stories where mc get reminded somehow (can be in the middle of the story) that they live in a real world with real ppl and they aren't the greatest or imortal but they can do great and will do great (and maybe some less great) things. I like mcs who thinks about their decisions and actions and understand their short comings(they don't need to know them all) and tries to overcome them. if they fail then that is fine just like life, now they have something else to make great again. I dislike naive doers (like the typical hero who kills the demon king) and those that can somehow run away from their responsibilities without consequences and here we go again back to why I dislike manhua π
About the props: oh yea, that is why it is best to read multiple geners or you will start to think all of them are from the same family just different generations π or they all had the same architect hahaha. that is something manga is great at, I have read so few Mangas where the props and background looks bad or the same. I know they do have their cheats but I don't see them. But manhwas is updated weekly or even faster while Manga comes out with a chapter per month (except for those in weekly magazines). So it isn't that weird. Some manhwas can you not tell they use 3d props tho like lookism, I don't think they do it. But most of the panels are just two or more ppl with a colored (usually white) background so that could be why they didn't have to "cheat" π In vn can you kinda tell it is 3d but they are very good at making it look less off. It just looks a bit different in style (usually no black lines).
I have been trying to type this message all day. Started with me missing my stop and saw it muuuch later π and then when I jumped on another bus to get back did I almost miss while I typed again. And then I had almost no time through the day and when I went home did I again almost miss my stop. And now when I am home did I have to eat and make my ruhbars liquor (That I hope will be done on the evening of this Thursday so I can give it to my family and extended family at the "midsommar" party) and in between am I trying to type this. How can it take a full day to type a message? π (not activly full but you get what I mean). Hope you had a great day :D
If you do end up picking up Lookism again, lemme know - I'll decide if I should check it out again based on your experience.
Ehhh, if we describe isekai as "going to another world" and then depending on the definiton of "world", going back in time would count as isekai too I think π
Dude I know what you mean, these types of mangas and manhwas have gotten stale these days - with the same isekai-specific tropes and storylines, they're more fan service than anything like you said >_<
Haha I know what you mean. To be fair though, Isekai is similarly easy to ignore because of their goofy titles, like it always is a clickbait sentence "How I ended up in another world with the overpowered ability to punch like a legendary gorilla"
No No I understood your point. It's just that I've read so many isekais first before gamer mangas, it feels to me that gamer ones are the thing that seem like Isekai (because they have such similar tropes) - Logically what you're saying makes sense, as things like EXP and stats don't make sense in a normal isekai, but because I read Isekais first, and since both genres have escapism and wish-fulfillment and re-use of their existing knowledge to survive. But yeah, the mechanics and logics get dumbed down so much π
OOOH SAME! Have you read "Ascendance of a Bookworm"??? It is one of my favourite isekais of all time, and the way the protagonist goes around changing things is so heartwarming and funny.
I agree with a lot of the themes you said. Specifically, I enjoy the isekai and game-theme works where a flawed protagonist uses this chance to turn over a new leaf, through the new experiences they gain. It always feels nice to see someone be better when they are given a chance to improve :)
Honestly I've read a lot more Manga than Manhwa, but I definitely feel Manga backgrounds and props are more unique and varied - I think they have the luxury to do that since they draw it in black and white, and since a lot of manga are still hand-drawn, there isn't a simple copy-paste of assets that you can do while drawing digitally.
Hahaha I get what you mean -had the same experience for my last msg and this one. I had this tab open where I was typing out the reply throughout the day in between breaks while I worked. Sometimes I forgot what I was typing and then put it off till later so I could come back and write it properly
Oooh what's that? What's it taste like? Also, and why is the "midsommar" in quotes?
My day was hectic af. Hope you had a great day too
Haha it feels a bit like you push me out to check if it is safe or not π I will tell you what i think about it when i have read a few chapters. Maybe it will be a nice fresh break from the rest. Recently the weather is so hot I feel too slugish to read anything xD
Hmm yea maybe time travel could be seen as a different world. It will kinda be like a parallel world where you know the outcome of major events and if you change them then it will be a different reality which could be translated to a different world maybe? It feels so philosophical to define what our world is haha. But I am unsure if i think time traveling is. Maybe if you travel back so far that it feels like a different world because everything you know is "wrong" but that would still just be a feeling. It actually feels weird when a manga tries to create some kind of link to the world we know and the other world, like mc can travel between the two not just a one way street. It is like breaking the fourth wall.
yeeeaaa it sucks! It makes it feel so boring reading and just like you said long names often is isekai + boring plot with an illogical OP MC. I am ok with an OP MC if there is a twist about it for example "The Eminence In Shadow" it is so stupid and funny. There are a lot of things happening behind MC's back. He by accident changes the course of the events all the time or even destroy plans for his friends and when they tell him he just play along and thinks they are playing house together with his lunatic friends and don't even believe any of this is happening for real, and they think he got bigger vision and see things they can't and their scary dedication to him grows larger.
It is very edgy and he knows it and actually mocks it too with love, so it makes it even more fun. but I kinda got bored of it now after 50 chapters. But I am unsure if it is because it is being updated so slowly (once a month) so i forget most of it or because there isn't any real progress with MC the rest grows a lot tho, from one person to 100 of dedicated followers with their own side stories and problems.
But back to the easy to ignore. Is it really? I mean we can ignore the very obvious ones but i often click a manga and 90% of the time even with a short name and a discrete book cover is it an isekai like the one i just wrote about. It is either "a slice of life" of someone's school life or an isekai! But maybe my manga sources just favor those a lot more. That is why i read a lot more manhwa. They have their problems too with isekai but i find a lot more gems (plus they update faster) so that is that haha. Why is school life so interesting? I have tried many and get bored fast π a few made me stick around but they were often about events outside school and not so much on the school ground.
I liked Ascendance of bookworms too! But it stopped getting updates somewhere back in the beginning of 22 :( Maybe i should reread it. Actually maybe that is what i should do with everything i remember as good. As long as i don't remember major plots it should be fine? right? hahah π for example this great manga Jobless Reincarnation - It will be All Out if I Go to Another World that i started reading 2019. The name is very bad but the manga is very good. The MC actually goes through a lot of personality development together with his friends and family. Both ups and downs, like depression because he lost a very dear friend in the middle of the manga (i don't want to spoil so this is super vague). A lot of very heavy feelings that are greatly shown through many parts of his life. So i recommend it. The only bad thing is that there are only 91 chapters and it is updated only once a month D:
And this one: The Death Mage Who Doesn't Want a Fourth Time i actually read the novel first. The manga came out much later. I do enjoy the novel more but the manga is good too (but the drawings are pretty... poor?). It has a great world development. The guy who is translating the novel is doing gods work https://lightnovelbastion.com/novel/death-mage/ he is really good at writing so it is very enjoying to read it (not like other fan translated novels). I have been reading that since 2019 π
The nice thing about novels is that you can read it on the bus without feeling ashamed π
Most mangas is actually drawn digitally nowadays but by hand on tablets like wacom cintiq. Japanese are very traditional beings even with digital tools so i am not surprised if that is why they don't use 3d props (or maybe they do but are so good at hiding it?). I also like it more because it becomes a lot more harmonious with the characters. It is kinda off putting to see a kinda correctly drawn person with one kind of style with a lot of perfectly shaped things around them in a completely different style. It is better if it is equally bad/good or in the same style at least like the thickness of the lines.
I don't know how it tastes because this is my first time making it. It is vodka + rhubarbs + raspberries + white syrup. It is supposed to be in the fridge and shaken now and then for the minimum of 2 weeks, but i don't have time for that. If it tastes ok will i make it again and wait two weeks haha. Supposedly will it be better the longer you wait. I am pretty excited to see how i and the others will feel about it. You should try it out. Last year I made a drink by making "ice cream" out of watermelon green skin (why waste something that can taste great?) and adding it in a glass with prosecco (the only time i would drink that by choice) it was so great my dad wanted to drink it multiple times and he usually ask for a beer instead π
I put midsummer in quotations because it is a tradition here (and a name) but i don't know if you know about it. I am Swedish and we got our parties going that i am unsure of how many outside of the Nordic countries know about π
today must have been the hottest day of the year i am sweating and i can't go outside or i will melt away! It is 21:00 here and still super hot! So that removes some focus but i did very well even tho the heat tried to kill me. I am now laying on the sofa with a fan directed at me π
Oh I am definitely asking you to test it out for me π - that manhwa scared me when I was a kid and I don't wanna try reading it now if it has become meh at the end of it.
I think time travel can count as isekai if you travel so far into past/future that no one alive knows you - then you can have a fresh start and also have some extra knowledge like an isekai - though I don't know if knowing the past counts as a superpower when you travel to the future π
Ugh travelling between two worlds feels like cheating - it becomes more of a Gate or VR Game genre than an isekai.
Ooh I didn't Eminence had all those plots - I initially thought it was a generic one and skipped it. Maybe I should check it out, though I have to say, I haaate it when MC gets followers, it feels weird and also feels like fanservice
Hmmm, you make a fair point- before I had to search for Isekai genre on different sites, but now every manga has isekai themes in it. I also don't know what this obsession with high school is - I liked it before because I could relate, but now it's too silly. I guess they're doing it because their main target audience is high school kids.
Duude you should pick AoB back up - and read the novel if you can! I like the Manga because it shows the printing press part which was hard for me to visualise, and the art is cute, but novel has SO MUCH MORE CONTENT. Are you subscribed to JNovel? The manga is getting weekly updates there, and 2 volumes are getting translated simultaeneously.
JOBLESS REINCARNATION IS MY FAV NOVEL OF ALL TIME - I love the MC despite all his flaws, and the world is SO RICH. I must have re-read it like 5 times till now - it has made me cry loads. Also something I recommend the novel over the manga - the manga is still good, but it literally changes some storylines for the worse imo. Plus, the novel is finished and translated.
I'll check out Death mage - the premise seems funny enough, and god knows I'm in need for some good writing after coursing through MTL for so long.
Hahaha Manga is a niche-but-not-so-niche enough interest in my place that people will like you when you read it.
I'm glad they moved to digital - making Manga is tiresome as it is but having to do it with ink and paper sounds terrible. I'm not sure about the statistic though - I remember someone posting on reddit last year that most published Mangakas are still drawing traditionally, and only the younger ones are drawing digitally. I think their traditionality is the reason they don't re-use assets. A complicated asset that you can't copy-paste is just a burden.
Ooooh that drink sounds delicious - I can imagine the Vodka, Raspberry, and Syrup, but I haven't eaten a Rhubarb ever so I dunno how to place it, hmmm. We have a drink here with fermented palm sap + syrup + rum, I feel like they would kinda taste the same. Woah - how'd you make ice cream out of skin?
I know the term "Midsommar" because there was a horror movie with that name recently - it scared me loads but I imagine the actual festival is pretty nice π
Ahhh heat must suck. In my place it's currently very cold because there's a cyclone brewing near the coast and it's sending loads of rain and cold winds this way - I'm all sweatered up and resting. I'm trying to detox and read a normal novel for once, bc I'm reading too much manga/manhwa and it has lowered my attention span sooo mcuh
Haha i will do it.
The super power to say "i was there!" but other than that i dont think so, I mean most thing you do remember would pretty much be less than the info you can look up on the internet xD
In general I would also say followers are the same or close to fan service, it depends a lot on the relationship. If there is no romance but they follow MC because MC has that kind of power then i am all for it for example like AOB I mean lutz is kinda of a follower of myne and Benne is pretty much a fan of hers too but he is a tshunder and she also got her priests xD
I actually liked harems a lot before(over 15 years ago) harem is kinda like what isekai is today, almost always in a fantasy world, very game like, save the world from the demon king, MC is loved by all after some chapters. Always the same troupes (some got very boring because just like isekai was the same....all...the...time). Most MCs was often irritating but some were actually very cool and reliable, i liked reading those. But i never cared for the romance parts. Love hina was one of my first mangas, I was maybe 8 when i read it in the library, now later in life does it feel a bit weird that a kid could read that, but i was so innocent π I wouldn't look for harem now. I am pretty sure it is still the typical shonen stuff that we both have said we dislike π
I actually started reading AoB again. I just found out something.. I never read the first volume! I remember thinking it felt like i was thrown into the manga in the middle but it said chapter 1 so i kinda just let it slide because the manga source i read it from never had multiple volumes spread out like bato.to can do sometimes. I read now the first volume and could tell i missed out a lot of character building. Myne was a lot more annoying in the beginning π I finished that volume yesterday and in the comment section did someone link to the second volume saying it has been picked up again and that was the one i read thinking it was all. I bet there is a "third" volume that i will find out also exist (and that is why my source said it stopped being translated years ago), so i have been lied to!!!! hahahah Better for me :D
I will follow your advise and look up the novel. I actually read the novel parts that they leave in the manga and it really makes the manga better, helps understanding ppls action more. The manga has Myne in the center so you can only assume some are assholes without knowing why they act like they do. It also helps you see what kind of effect she has, like creating opportunities for craftsmen (that she will never know she did).
I will also read jobless as a novel!! I never thought to look up if it exists as one! The world building and characters are so great in that one!! And the motives for the characters are very well written! I also like that everything is so human (?), for example the characters forget sometimes that what they feel isn't always true for others and that everyone do not know what they know or feel if they don't say anything. I think the author is very good at telling us the readers what the characters thinks and putting all the other characters in the dark.
Usually is everything so dumbed down and for some reason everyone understand everyone so well and MC have no setbacks. His biggest problems are usually physical like traveling a long distance or their being monsters in the way but that wont be a problem for long. The MC will find a strong person who so happens to have a problem that MC can help with and then the strong person starts to like MC a bit too much for such a short time and then help MC for example teleport MC... Everything doesn't have to be solved! and it doesn't have to be solved right away! that is how i feel about most mangas... they are always so narrow minded and just run through everything to get to their goal.
yea MTL really kills the joy of reading. There was a time i didn't mind, there were also a time i started to think about just translating it my self and then i found Death mage and now i can't read anything worse in quality πThis is also one of the reason why i like reading manga, the translation is often very good or good enough compared to manhua.. if the translation wasn't so bad then maybe i would had to tried to read it a bit more, even tho the whole world/character building seems to be a joke.
I haven't seen many who read, but it could just be that just like I, they keep the manga reading at home haha When i have talked with ppl about it have most only seen a few animes like pokemon, sailor moon, dragon ball and so on. I don't remember anyone saying they read or have read manga. Except for two ppl (when i was a kid). Studio Gihbli movies have pretty much everyone seen, but I don't see that as anime, it is very different from your typical anime.
Oh really? The mangakas i have seen in their work environment used a tablet, but it is true they were all pretty young (30 or less) so that could be why, i just assumed they had switch to a digital medium because of that haha
I have now drunk it and so did my family and extended family, they all said they liked it :D My parents and I tried it first just in case and all of us got pleasantly surprised haha
I dont know how to describe the taste of rhubarb, it doesn't taste like anything else i have eaten. It is sweet but also very sour so you need to add a bit of sugar hence the white syrup. It is also great for cleaning the pot from burned food π I think it is because it has a lot of acid in it.
I make rhubarb cream every summer. I grew up with rhubarb cream and rhubarb pie.
I finally found the receipt for the watermelon ice cream (sorbet) drink https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGMV2vLDJOw
Try it out it was great :D I made it a bit simpler and didn't mix it all together with the prosecco and had more prosecco then he had (i have had drinks before with sorbet and prosecco and they did not mix it that is why i didnt do it), so it was more like a sorbet with prosecco it created a very nice balance between the bitter prosecco and sweet sorbet. You can also use the red parts to make water melon sorbet too but I ate it as is. A cold watermelon is great in summer because it has so much water in it and cools you down a lot!
I looked up the midsummer movie on imdb, it looks like they made our festival/party into a cult, so i can see why it is a horror movie π
Our company give us some book options to pick from every year to read (if we want to). I haven't picked one up yet. But i am looking forward to it :D It is very nice to read a book while swinging in the wind in a hammock. It is pretty hard to do that with the sun glaring at the phone.
Dude I have never and i hope i will never live through a cyclone, seems pretty scary, nature can really wreak havoc. You don't need to get to a shelter?
Thanks friendo. Your sacrifice is much appreciated
I suppose it depends on the nature of followers; plain friends and employee is fine, but simple fanatics are cringe - I actually don't mind fanatics who are well-developed. Unfortuantely simple fanatics are what seem to be the most common
Honestly I don't mind Harems themselves- some of them were a functionaly poly relationship (like Jobless Reincarnation). I just HATED how they are implemented because of the indecisiveness and pointlessness of the characters, lack of development and crappiness that favored extension of drama over resolution.
All the best with the novels for AoB and Jobless - there are legal channels and also the option to sail the high seas, whichever is easier for you.
Lol I get what you mean. Not to mention how every character is either a master plotter or an idiot who wears their hearts on their sleeves, becuase every interaction between these fellows must be an easy-to-digest nicelty wrapped up plot point.
Jobless' world is really one of my favs - it's a basic setting, but everything fits well together and the lore makes sense. and yes the characters! All of them are three-dimensional, and work together while not knowing every single feeling that the others are feeling.
A good translator is such a blessing - I only read some chinese webnovels till completion (all 1500-1800 chapters of them), because the translators were so passionate about it and it showed in their work. I started reading Death Mage btw, I'm not 100% into the story yet, but the translations are pretty nice.
I have mixed feelings about MTL. On one hand they are grating to read through, on another hand they're so rough you can fill in the gaps however you want. I kinda feel like the guy
Huh your description of Rhubarb reminds me of Gooseberries for some reason - though I imagine Gooseberries are much sourer - but the way you use them is kinda similar. We use honey or syrup to sweeten gooseberries for drinks and making candies, but have never them for pies.
Thanks for the recipe, It does look delicious. Summer's almost done on our side of the globe, so this'll probably be a recipe for a bit later - or when one of those irregular humid days come by. God you're so right about watermelons though - biting into one when you're dehydrated is exhilarating. Watermelon + Pineapple combo is uber.
Hahaha taking a jolly festival and converting it into a cultist horror seems like a trope at this point
I have this one memory in my mind - sitting on a bench by a lake, a mini glass bottle of a mango drink, a packet of potato chips in one hand and a book in the other, enjoying the breeze as a listen to the waters of the lake splash gently while I savour the snacks and indulge in the book. That remains one of my most peaceful reminiscence to date, and I have not been able to recreate it for so looong ugh. Hammock + book is a close second though.
Have you tried Kindle or E-Ink tablet for reading? Beats the sun ezpz
Oh no need to worry, the cost is far far away from my place. The people who would be affected have long been evacuated and are in shelters. Cyclone is receding now and people are returning back to their homes. The most we feel here in my town is the cold weather and unusual rains. It even hailed here the other day - which was cool, I've only seen hail once or twice in my life.