this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
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Well, I guess we have to accept that we both exist and we expirence a share a universe with some objective properties. At least I wouldn't know how to make any argument outside of that premise.
But with that, I'd say we have a basic understanding of how this universe works. We know our eyes detect a certain electromagnetic spectrum which is the predominant mechanism to carry information around in this universe. And we managed to do quite a lot by inferring laws of nature from that, building them up and these days we can detect and meassure all kinds of forces that tells us things that allows us to build things, and it all .. works (ignoring the many times it didn't, but it's part of the process). So that's proof. But of course we invented the concept of proof ...
One could ask, does the universe without humans have value? Does order over chaos have value? Does energy vs empty space have value?
If it would all still exist and go on this way without humans, it feels like someone or something must have seen value in it at least at some point. Or perhaps we do really exist in some manifestation of total chaos.
But there is where I end up in the same question as @[email protected]. What exactly do you mean by value?
I don't know what you mean if order has value over chaos, but we have values for order and the general law is, that it's going towards chaos. Entropy.
And according to physicists, empty space itself has an energy value. They call it dark energy. No one knows what it is.
Also, I think it's a bit egocentric to think it's all about humans. Who says we are the only ones with the concept of value, even just on our planet. Maybe we're just an anomaly. Like mold growing on someone's solar system model.
I’m now considering a line of thinking where value = scarcity. Feels weird, but maybe there’s something there?
That wasn't what I was thinking of, but I think there is something to it. Even it's not an intrinsic value, it's indisputable that some scarce resources have immense value to any life form that can utilise them. That's a big factor in evolution.
But does it have "value"? What is the point of a planet with life on it against a barran rock planet or a gas giant? Why does the universe care that something is scarce?
I don't know if you know about George Carlin, but a lot of people refere to him as a philosopher. But it's also really harsh and abrasive stand-up comedy. And a few decades old.
But what if we are just here to make plastic?
Hey, i’ll check that comedian out. I can guess where that plastic and scarcity in the universe argument might go.
I’ve been thinking about it more and I added my own comment about my new inclination on this.
The problem with my initial line of thinking was in craving certainty. I think intrinsic value is not so much an illusion as it is a mystery. It very well could be plastic for all we know, or it might not exist at all.