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If you believe what Janeway did to Tuvix was wrong, does Spock get a pass? (startrek.website)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I want to live!

- EvilKirk's last words

Whatever else you want to say about EvilKirk, it's pretty clear that he didn't want to be merged back into the single Kirk. Despite this, there is no shortage of reasons why it was a good idea to merge the Kirks: the Enterprise needed its CO back, GoodKirk wanted to do it, and it seems possible that the strain of remaining split would have eventually killed EvilKirk anyways. However, the fact remains that EvilKirk did not consent to the procedure which ended his existence.

Clearly the circumstances here are quite different and there's basically no argument to be made that allowing EvilKirk to continue to exist would benefit any involved party, EvilKirk included. But for the purposes of this comparison, the only fact that really matters is that EvilKirk was just as passionate about his desire to continue existing as Tuvix was.

Yet—and it's obvious where I'm going with this—"Spock murdered EvilKirk" is not a meme.

So what gives? Did Spock murder EvilKirk or not? If yes, why does he get a pass while Janeway is condemned?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

he could have learned to control his behaviour, but I’m not sure that’s the case for a personality entirely made up of those negative traits.

But what does it even mean to be "made up of negative traits"? Would he have been completely unable to learn? To realise that, maybe, sometimes, there is benefit in not being "evil", even for entirely selfish reasons? And who says that GoodKirk couldn't also learn to be more assertive? (psychotherapy must be easily available in our socialist future, especially for high-ranking Starfleet officers, as well as plenty time off for mental health reasons)

It's not like Kirk's positive and negative traits are inherent, he wasn't born with them, but they are a result of his life's experiences. So could one make the argument that both would just need time to adjust?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

See this is exactly what I mean. The Kirk example is a grey area, that in real life would lead to way too many questions than could be answered in a single TV episode. It's an interesting thing to think about though, and gets into the whole nature vs nurture debate that we saw tackled a bit in episodes like the DS9 one with the baby Jem'Hadar. If you're ripped apart into two beings like that, are you essentially "born" good or evil and would you have the capacity for change?

Could each Kirk have gone on to become psychologically stable? Maybe, maybe not. Did merging them save one combined life that would've otherwise soon expired, or did it murder two individuals who could've gone on to have long happy lives? Lots of questions, ripe for debate. A grey area.

Whereas in the Tuvix example, there's nothing really grey about it. And regardless of which side you come down on in the Kirk debate, that's why I believe Janeway gets all the flak and Spock does not.