this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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Holy fuck, are you not paying attention? It does not matter if it was sudden or not. If it got to the point that the DM was willing to twist the narrative to kill the entire party, they should have already left.
I haven't been traumatised. Heck, I've barely ever been a player. I just don't know why people are being so defensive of vindictive DMing. It's deeply unhealthy. Doms do need aftercare, but they also shouldn't go into their fun with spite on their mind.
Your example is NOT an example, because that player was not murderhoboing. You weren't vindictively adding an element to the game to get him killed, you were organically reacting to their actions with details that had already been established. Your consequence made sense, and it made the game more fun for everyone involved.
It is a DM's job to make sure everyone had fun at the end of the session, DM included. Technically, that's everyone's job, but the DM is the one with more authority. This doesn't mean bad things can't happen, but nobody should be outright miserable. If one person's fun would detract from someone else's fun, then either a frank conversation is needed or someone should leave to find that fun elsewhere.
If it got to the point that the party was willing to twist the narrative to kill the entire campaign, they should have already left.
Then why are you so passionate about this if you don't have experience? I have experience both as a player when another player goes all murder hobo, and a GM when people have gone full murder hobo. It isn't fun, there was always talk before hand and the GM tries to not break flow of game. I'm not "defense of vindictive DMing" I've just been in plenty of complex situations similar to A NINETEEN WORD MEME that you are refusing to understand that people with experience are laughing at, not because "being mean is good" but people trying to make the best of a shit situation they've been PUT in.
It's a perfect example of what I have been talking about.
My experience is definitely people wanting to play/GM with friends and I haven't ever directly paid/been pain for sessions. So when I say job I'm definitely implying a soul crushing 9-5 and not a session between friends. It's a group activity, everyone should be trying. If it is solely the DM's job to keep the peace, it is a failing game.
Correct. Both the players and the DM are being arseholes. Why the fuck are you defending the DM for doing what the players are doing?
You're comparing the nineteen word meme that frames vindictive DMing as a natural consequence, rather than an unhealthy response to antagonism, to an experience you had that was, as far as I can see, entirely unrelated. Making the best of a shit situation you've been put in is to leave that situation. If you're in a pit full of shit, don't make marshmallows and sing songs. Either remove the shit or get out of the pit. Stop trying to argue that it's fine to remain in the shit pit.
It's a perfect example of something ONLY YOU have been talking about. The enforcement of expectations in your example was made using things that were already in the game in order to make the game fun. That's not what other people have been talking about.
Please fucking read my comment. I did not say it was SOLELY the DM's job. I said it was EVERYONE's job, DM included. Please respond to what people ACTUALLY SAY. Yes, it's a group activity, but if everyone in the group wants one thing and one person wants something else, they should leave that group. It doesn't matter if that person is a DM or a player.
You really haven't experienced this have you. I usually recommend the German version of funny games because Americans don't recognize the actors, and it's easier to just put the movie as "just people" in their heads. The whole movie is about using social expectations in order to torture and kill a family.
If you get up and leave when people do this, you're probably going to become unfavorable and not invited back.
If you just rip out the role playing to address every small thing people will just stop role playing, and become murderhobos anyways.
It's good to go over the game in a kind of want/will/won't list. Because sometimes in order to get what you want out of a game you need to go through things you're only willing to do. To me, it seems like you've been saying this whole time "if you don't do what you WANT, then quit" which would explain why you've "barely ever been a player."
You've been screaming, in not direct ways, a lack of social experience with things of this nature. I wish you the best of luck. And as a recommendation, try not to get upset at a nineteen word meme that you haven't experienced. There is a good reason why the most comments in this, besides you, have been people telling you that you are wrong.
Unless you explain to me why you're so passionate about this, I will not care to respond. I hope you have a lot of fun in the games you play and I hope you get the best out of them. I hope you have a wonderful Sunday, I'm going to go play a game where the DM wants me to back stab the party.
From the example you gave, you haven't experienced it either. And the reason I haven't experienced it is because, as the DM, I didn't throw Bahamut at a problem player and just warned them to either cut it out or be kicked from the game. The game then improved for everyone remaining.
Hold on... If I leave the shit pit, I won't be invited back into the shit pit? And that's a bad thing?
You wanna know why I'm so passionate? Because you're infuriating. Because you're writing entire essays about things nobody has been talking about and calling ME passionate about it. Because "rip out the role playing" isn't something anyone has mentioned directly or otherwise. Because everyone keeps replying to me without responding to me. Nobody has explained why it's good to remain in the shit pit for a second longer than absolutely necessary.
If you're in a pit and it's full of shit, either remove the shit or leave the shit pit. I don't get why that's controversial to say.
Bro, who hurt you?
Nobody. I just don't approve of vindictive DMing. I don't like spending time doing things that make me miserable so long as it makes others even more miserable. It's weird that so many people disagree.
Because you're out here losing your shit over a silly out of context meme.