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The American empire is imploding (michael-hudson.com)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Something something, paper tiger, Mao was right.

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[+] [email protected] -17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'm really not trying to be combative with you brother. I'm not going to be friendly to the viewpoint you're supporting, but I'm just a person like you -- trying to make sense of the world and telling you how I see it. You've got no call to be getting insulting or cursing at me just because I'm disagreeing with you.

I think the fascist pogroms against ethnic Russians in Ukraine didn't exist. The Russian government's lies leading up to the invasion are well-documented, so it seems weird to argue that their claims of violence against ethnic Russians in Ukraine is unimpeachable evidence that it was happening. Do you have documentation or support for it happening? Do you have a ballpark for how many people were killed or injured in this violence?

I don't know why you're talking so mockingly about that question. The objective facts of what was happening are important.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

You are right to ask for evidence. The propaganda machine makes it hard to find the truth. The historical context of this war is rarely reported in western media. They used to report on it but now they pretend the history is different and are silent on any facts that would support an alternative narrative. A brief internet search reveals (and I have deliberately found a mixture of sources, most of which are anti-Russia):

spoiler

By 2016, the BBC was reporting that at least 9,200 people had been killed since 2014: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36148882
After the Maidan coup, ‘Volodymyr Bondarchuk… believes Ukraine's politicians are not fighting for democracy and ideals "but to control access to money". Cynicism and frustration towards post-Maidan politics, and the lack of change, in Ukraine is growing.’ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36021231
Fears of a hot war since 2016: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-35844164
‘Donbas war death toll rises up to nearly 13,000’: https://www.unian.info/war/10416549-donbas-war-death-toll-rises-up-to-nearly-13-000-un.html
UN Reported, ‘the total civilian death toll of the conflict has reached at least 3,390. The number of injured civilians is estimated to exceed 7,000.’ https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2021-11/aPR32_final_ENG.pdf. The same document reports: ‘Thirteen civilian casualties resulted from active hostilities: four killed (all men) and nine injured (seven men and two women). Seventy-seven per cent of these (four killed and six injured) were recorded in territory controlled by self-proclaimed ‘republics’, and 23 per cent (three injured) in the Government-controlled part of Donetsk region. For example, on 14 April 2021, a man was killed by mortar shelling in armed group-controlled Donetsk; and on 19 June 2021, a man was injured by heavy machine gun fire in Government-controlled Avdiivka (Donetsk region).’
UN Security Council meeting on 29 May 2018 reported’: “The conflict [in eastern Ukraine] continues to test the credibility of international and regional organizations and erodes the trust Member States need to work together in the interest of Europe’s stability,” said Rosemary DiCarlo, Under‑Secretary‑General for Political Affairs. Repeated pledges to respect the ceasefire as laid out in the 2015 Minsk agreements had failed to end the fighting, now in its fifth year. Destruction and immense suffering continued, she said, noting that the civilian death toll stood at more than 2,700, with up to 9,000 injured.’ https://press.un.org/en/2018/sc13357.doc.htm
https://www.donbass-insider.com/2021/03/09/ukraine-intensifies-shelling-and-preparations-for-offensive-in-the-donbass/
You’ll notice the anti-Russia sentiment in some stories, e.g. https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-shootings-donetsk-moscow-russia-3d2e732cc1a88c0d1b36fe856b45a8a9 but they don’t deny the fact of a conflict. Instead they claim that France and Germany tried hard to arrange a peace agreement, known as Minsk, which apparently granted Russia too much.
Looking further into the Minsk, Merkel later revealed: ‘"It's a great sadness that it didn't work out, but I don't blame myself for not trying," said Merkel, speaking of the 2014 Minsk agreement with Russia.’ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/merkel-says-she-doesnt-blame-herself-not-trying-hard-enough-ukraine-2022-06-07/. In other words, ‘The 2014 Minsk Agreement was an attempt to buy time for Ukraine’: https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/12/13/merkels-confession-could-be-a-pretext-for-an-international-tribunal/. To the real international community (not just the white parts of it): ‘Real intention behind Minsk agreements further destroys credibility of the West’ https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281708.shtml.
https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-intensifies-shelling-of-donbass-as-western-media-are-silent/
https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/10/five-years-of-war-in-the-donbas/
https://blog.politics.ox.ac.uk/most-people-in-separatist-held-areas-of-donbas-prefer-reintegration-with-ukraine-new-survey/

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Nah, see, I'm not cordial with sealions at all. And that's exactly what you're doing. JAQ'ing off, I think they call it now. So we're just gonna ignore all the shelling in the leadup to the 2020s? We're just gonna ignore the GLOBAL HEADLINES that made? We're just gonna ignore the 14,000 dropped bodies since 2014? We're just gonna ignore all the Wolfsengels, Totenkopfs, and other assorted nazi paraphernalia while you hoist all those water buckets?

I can't wait to see what you'll ignore when those chickens finally come home to roost. Fuck out my inbox; you're no longer welcome to a dialogue with me. It was funny, now you're just sickening me.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I think the fascist pogroms against ethnic Russians in Ukraine didn’t exist.

That's the problem, you are denying a genocide that has lots of evidence.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Edit: sorry replied to the wrong person

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Here's russian propaganda from US Congress in 2018.

[+] [email protected] -14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is accurate, yes; the neo-Nazi organization and their involvement in the 2014 revolution are real.

How does that justify Russia's invasion? Are they defending Ukrainians against neo-Nazis, by bombing Ukrainian cities, and a Jewish leader is leading the Ukrainians in a war of aggression on Ukrainian soil against their well-intentioned de-Nazification effort? I'm not trying to be flip about something so serious, but it sounds like that's what some other people in this thread are telling me. Would you agree with all of that, or how would you characterize it?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Russia sees this war as a war for their existence. They tried to join NATO several times after the fall of the USSR and were prevented from doing so. The current Russian state is capitalist, yes, but they are on the other side of the imperialist bloc they would have rather been a part of. What does that make NATO but an explicitly anti-Russian alliance? And even if we were to pretend it isn't, why should Russia trust NATO? Especially after the US and EU sank the Minsk agreement and revealed that they only supported it in bad faith anyway? Especially since the US has been openly talking about shutting down the Nord Stream pipeline since even began construction? Especially since US state representatives were present during the Maidan revolution, shaking hands with Nazis in photos, and discussing in leaked audio how they will engineer regime change in Ukraine (said engineer has continued to be involved in the Biden White House).

Given that last time Nazis were on Russia's border, over 10 million Russians (over 20 mil Soviet citizens) perished in a war of record-breaking proportions, and now Nazis are here again and the US is attempting to make them part of the Western imperial club with nukes and everything... What, in your opinion, is the rational, compassionate action that Russia supposed to take?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I think the real reason Russia invaded was because they could not tolerate Ukraine joining NATO. The US wouldn't do anything different if this had happened in Canada during the cold war. Hell, they invaded Cuba for this. I'm sympathetic to Russia on this one because I do NOT want a unipolar world.

A Jewish leader does not mean that Ukraine is not dangerously far right wing. It's like saying racism is defeated in the US because it had a black president. As for bombing Ukraine? Look up Ukraine's cluster bomb usage in 2014-2022. When your soldiers are using weapons that are banned in most of the world on your own citizens, and your soldiers are wearing skulls on their uniforms, you surely have to ask if you're the baddies?

Basically, I think NATO didn't leave Russia much choice. And I don't support fascist nations anyway. Sorry, no links this time. At the airport.