this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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Well yes, but the overall conversation has already moved forward from the issue of homosexuality (which in my opinion is "solved") to transsexuality (which is not so "solved" yet in my opinion).
Exactly how does it hurt kids to teach them that some people identify with a different gender than their biological sex? Do you have some psychological studies to back that claim up or are you just presuming you know?
Some of them will start to imagine that they as well might identify with a different gender then their biological sex, which can cause them significant stress -- like the term "dysphoria" aptly suggests. This is supported by data: the amount of reported gender dysphoria in young people has risen steeply over the last 20 years.
A kid who thinks they're heterosexual might start to imagine that they as well might identify with a different sexuality than the one they were born with, which can cause them significant stress.
Do you not see how this is the same?
And the reason the reporting of the number of cases has gone up is we're more accepting of trans people now. Guess what, the number of LGBT+ people in general has gone up. Because people can come out of the closet without fearing for their life a lot of the time (but not every time) these days.
No, I cannot see these things as the same. Regarding homosexuality, the individual is thinking "wrong", and that wrongness is entirely based on how some parts of society think about sexuality. In the other, your own body is wrong. This is completely internal, and that part of the problem has nothing to do with how society thinks about you -- even if society's opinion can of course make it worse.
See the difference? One of these problems can be completely fixed by fixing society.
It could be the reason, but you definitely cannot say that this definitely is the reason.
I see, so we shouldn't get kids plastic surgery if they have a non-life threatening but ugly deformity because thinking your own body is wrong is completely internal and has nothing to do with how society thinks of you.
I don't get what you're implying.
Your words:
Someone with a deformity thinks their own body is wrong. That is completely internal. How did society tell them that deformity is wrong? Actually- let's go with an easier one. Nose jobs. We allow teenage girls to get nose jobs when they feel their own body is wrong. That is completely internal too. And yet it's a very common practice that, unlike any sort of medical treatment for transgender kids, requires no psychological counseling whatsoever.
So you should be very, very against the harm that nose jobs cause to children. It could make what society thinks of them worse, right?
If they genuinely think their body is wrong in relation to their thoughts, society has nothing to do with that discrepancy. They have a man's body (for instance), but they feel they should have a woman's body. That was exactly my point. Thinking this is the same thing as a nose job feels a bit insulting to their problems.
Again- you said thinking your body is wrong is completely internal. Therefore children should not ever get any form of plastic surgery unless it is life-threatening. This is your reasoning, except you're only applying it to trans kids.
No, I did not say any of those things.
You implied those things based on your reasoning. I even showed you why.
I'm clearly not reaching you in describing this distinction, but that's my weakness, not yours.
There is no distinction.
Yeah, sorry, that doesn't become true just by repeating it over and over again.
Nope, it's true because you haven't justified it.
The distinction is so trivially true that there's gotta be a huge communication failure here, and I'm sorry for my part in it. But I'll just go this way, you go that way.