361
Israel declares siege of Gaza as Hamas threatens to start killing hostages
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
361 points (95.7% liked)
News
23014 readers
3 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Israel is out for revenge and as I have written elsewhere: When they enter Gaza, they want to get attacked. Because after an attack they will retaliate and every dead civilian, while retaliating against Hamas, will be considered collateral damage.
Hamas made the whole Gaza Invasion an easy sell for a lot of people. And no, I don’t think that it is ok to kill civilians.
My illusory wish for the Middle East would be something like a joint state of Palestinians AND Israelis - so that they can all access their holy sites. Forcing both sides to work together.
Hmmm, so if you were Hamas, for example, and you decide to deescalate in hopes of eventually reaching an agreement over a joint state, what would you do?
Also the same question but if you were Israel, what would you do (let's say today) to deescalate and seek a joint state solution?
At the moment there probably isn’t any will on either side to cooperate. Reasonable people with a will to compromise have to get involved…
Hamas publicly admitting that they fucked up by killing the civilians, releasing the hostages and calling for negotiations would be a first step in my opinion. Netanyahu would probably not know what to do in that situation.
If Israel were to make a first step: Netanyahu would only have to say that it cannot continue like this.
I mean look at France and Germany for example. Being archenemies for centuries caused immeasurable death and destruction in Europe and the whole world. Only after the Second World War those people realized that it cannot continue like this… and both countries murdered the shit out of each other before becoming something like friends.
Only if both parties are willing to break the cycle of violence, this will end.
Sounds pretty balanced. I agree that Netanyahu would probably not know what to do readily since it would be very unexpected.
I'm was also watching the latest TL;DR video on YouTube about this and it seems that the reports say civilians are the ones who carried out the kidnapping of lots of civilian hostages while Hamas focused on military targets. I don't know to what extent this is confirmable (since the source is Hamas itself).
If you are Hamas you cannot do anything now, they are bloodlusted and will not stop until you are dead and your culture is wiped off the earth.
Okay, but for the sake of this example, imagine you are Hamas and have changed your mind, what would be step 1?
Step 1 is to accept your demise. The West will no longer tolerate your version of your beliefs because they are incompatible with the rest of the world's status quo; a certain version of Islam that hypocritically hates the West but enjoys all the products they produce (including cultural like Hollywood action films), but also wants to destroy it and have something akin to what the Taliban have.
Women deserve bodily autonomy and the right to exist as a man or love another woman. Hamas version of Islam hates that way more than regular Islam or even the Catholics and Jews do.
Okay, but let's say your step 1 is what you would do if you didn't want to accept your demise (because I don't think this choice is one that anyone would really take).
If I were Hamas, my existence is at stake. So I would be brutally fighting for my life in the most savage way possible, taking hostages, fighting dirty, and killing indiscriminately so as to demoralize them and destroy them as much as possible.
That is not something Hamas would ever consider though so we are just in the realms of fantasy at this point.
So if Hamas "surrenders" to Israel, how is this going to stop Israel's daily oppression of Palestinians? What would Israel have to give back to Hamas?
It would stop the ground invasion that is about to happen.
Isreal is not going to give anything to Hamas after the massacres this week. That is no longer an option.
Israel has had options for so long and have waited for this moment to say they are out of options so they had to cut water off 2 million people of which one quarter of a million are now homeless and displaced.