361
Israel declares siege of Gaza as Hamas threatens to start killing hostages
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
361 points (95.7% liked)
News
23014 readers
3 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
They are "acting accordingly" by performing an ethnic cleansing. How disgustingly ironic.
Israel's "peace talks" are nonsense.
Israelis have stolen their land and homes, have performed ethnic cleansing, stripped them of their rights, and acted like they're the victims the entire time.
There's no good solution here, but an Israeli solution is not any solution at all.
"Israel offering peace talks" is like me offering you a couch after I steal your land and burned your house down. It isn't workable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
Since you love Wikipedia links and "peace agreements" here is one.
You can't argue with these people man. They are just contrarians. Make fun of them and move on, because absolutely no one with any power in the world gives a fuck what they say.
There can be no effective peace talks between the neck and the sword.
Palestinians have always been a people with a homeland but deprived of a state, their identity forged by oppression and resistance under a succession of empires. They were not called to give any input on the British decision to carve out their land for a Jewish state. They were driven out of their land by the millions, and those that remained were squeezed tighter and tigther, slowly pushed out of the usable land by illegal colonists which are protected by the state of Israel. Palestinian statehood was neglected for long enough that Israel was able to shatter or consume all Palestinian territory, making a Palestinian state inviable.
The state of Israel is entirely the product of imperialism, first British and now American. There can be no peaceful two-state solution because one of these states should not exist! The only peace will be a one-state peace, and it can only be achieved through bloodshed. Either the Palestinian people will finally gain their sovereignty, or the Zionists will finish building their monoethnic, theocratic paradise over the crushed bones of Palestine.
The idea that "some societies are just evil" is a very poor excuse to justify apartheid, but it's certainly not a new one. What is more "evil": to hate those that invaded your land and deprived you not only of self-determination, but of food, water and a future? Or to consider those of a different religion and cultural background as "human animals", spit on them and their religious symbols, arrest their children and deprive them of their human rights, kick their elders to the curb, drive them out of their family farms and into crowded and guarded ghettos?
Calling that heinous conclusion you came to rational is an offense to reason and to all moral and reasonable people.
My point about imperialism stands because it hinges on the creation of the modern state of Israel itself as well as its consequences. The imperialist character of Israel predates even its foundation, let alone the Arab-Israeli War. I don't understand why you keep linking to this section about the All-Palestine government. Could you elaborate?
I encourage you to read a bit further into that article about the Gaza Strip. It mentions how Israeli control over the Gaza Strip, both during its occupation and after, has served to operate an intentional de-development, leading to an engineered humanitarian crisis. Israel has arguably turned Gaza into the largest open air prison in the world (the article's words, not mine), and the large majority of those imprisoned are civilians, including a large contingent of children.
Anyhow, I can see that we are both very passionate about this, but I hope that you are at least able to see this from another point of view and understand that my position is not ill-intentioned. I harbor no hatred towards Jews or Israeli citizens as a whole; I do despise imperialist Zionism and the apartheid practices of the state of Israel. I believe the state should not have been created, because it is from its inception a theocratic herrenvolk democracy and a puppet of imperialist powers used to keep the Arab countries in Western Asia and the Mahgreb in check; and that the best possible solution to the Palestinian conflict is a multi-religious, multi-ethnic Palestinian state in which neither Arab nor Jewish supremacy is permitted.
Cannot wait til leftist podcasts invent a more accurate term for "countries doing things I don't like" because this one is so fucking dumb
I'm not a big fan of podcasts, so I got the term from Lenin's book on the matter; that's the definition of imperialism I'm using. Countries which are not imperial powers do plenty of things I don't like. I'm not claiming that one or another war crime is essentially imperialist, I'm saying that the foundation of the state of Israel is a reflection of imperialism as the current, highest stage of capitalism; the stage of the internationalization and concentration of capital through monopoly and the global financial system; reflected politically in the colonization and exploitation of the whole world and its division in empire and colony; which first dominant empire was the British and second and dominant great empire is the US. In this context, the creation of Israel is a British colonial project which was carried out without any consultation to the Palestinian residents of the area, and with the intention to strengthen the British claim to that chunk of the Ottoman Empire. Israel is now repurposed as a bastion of US imperialism in Western Asia, which serves to keep the Arab powers in check and satisfy the goals of Christian Zionism.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Tripe is tripe.
I totally agree with you.
In the same vein, Ukraine has totally ignored various offers from Russia and isn't a true partner for peace.
All they need to do is compromise and give up their land.
So the moment the Palestinians stop resisting, Israel will stop settlement construction (i.e. Ethnic cleansing) despite this being the opposite position of Netanyahu's government?
Of course!
The only way there will be peace is if Israel moves. Any other negotiations are pointless. There is no path to peace with Israel staying where it is.
Ignorant statement of the day: the only "apartheid" states in the Middle East are Arab ones. I've been on projects where Muslims tried to separate Americans with PhDs and Masters degrees from their teams and put them in slums just because of the color of their skin or their ancestry
Imagine siding with the oppressors and not the oppressed and trying to darvo literal genocide.
You both sides this argument then side with the fascists. Wow.
Dude made the effort to list a couple of things Israel did to solve the conflict by compromising and that is your reply?
Lmao
There is no compromise when you steal someone's land out from under them and bulldoze their homes.
Don't need to behead the babies when you can just bomb them, I guess
No they just bulldoze the houses of the babies and kicked them off the land. Somehow that makes them the good guys.
"no one will bat an eye"
Where were all the batting eyes when the shoe was on the other foot?
you haven't been following this shitshow for long have you? Look up Israels illegal settlements, both sides in this are evil and don't give a shit about civilian lives.
The west bank has nothing to do with Gaza or Hamas
Fatah runs the west bank
what the...
those two regions are inhabited by the same people, from the (former) same country. Fatah runs the West Bank yes, that does not suddenly make the people there non-Palestinians. Hamas still uses the issues in the West Bank as ammunition in their propaganda against Israel because the Palestinians in Gaza, surprise, care about the Palestinians in the West Bank.
Imagine not even knowing what is happening in the place you claim so passionately to care about lol
hm, there's a name for illegally occupying territory of a foreign nation while claiming they can't claim that territory. Ah right, colonialism. The very act of building settlements in someone else's territory is an act of aggression, it's in no way peaceful.
No one was coming to their rescue anyway. Everyone else was already turning a blind eye to Israel's abuses.
"people recognizing state sanctioned violence made it a lot harder to commit crimes against humanity, so be happy they've been allowed to live this long"