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this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
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So we need to decide who gets guns then, right? Some kind of control?
You'd think the "don't ban guns" people would be all for registration and background checks. After all, guns aren't the problem, people are.
I’m all for background checks, even mandatory safety classes, it’s the random banning of features that gets me. Banning firearms because they have a pistol grip or more than 10 round magazines makes no sense. The problem is most people who think like this get lumped in with the crazies.
The right was given when guns were muskets. I have no issue following the forefathers intended right. You may have all the muskets you want but if it's not needed for hunting or defending your home from an intruder then you shouldn't have it. Nobody needs a hundred round clip or full auto for an intruder.
I hate to argue against you because I agree that nobody needs a hundred round clip or full auto for an intruder, but the forefathers' intended right wasn't "people should have muskets". It was much closer to "the people should be armed in case of tyrrany by their government". The intention was for people to defend their other rights by force, making it more difficult for the government (or an invading force) to take over (this was immediately post-revolution mind you and much of the bill of rights was in direct response to british soldiers' activities). Of course they also thought we'd be reforming the government and drafting new constitutions as the culture changed, but of course that never happened.
I am not a historian, just a pedant.
I mean I get you are playing Devil's advocate but its clear we have also moved far those ideals. You are right the founding fathers didn't just say "people should have muskets" but we also have to think in the context of the times, private companies were also able to be armed with naval cannons but in the modern day I don't think Pepsi, Coke, Johnson and Johnson, or Nestle have an battalion of M1 Abrams and F22 raptors and the such. Like we are told we have the right to bear arms and in those days would be able to purchase the same arms that the military uses but I don't think I would want a world where every idiot can somehow afford and operate nukes, apache helicopters, etc. Hell while full automatic weapons aren't "technically" illegal in the US they are heavily regulated and expensive to possess and we the common people are boxed out owning such devices. So its clear we are "compromising" on the vision already quite a bit. Hell I would hope even some of the most die hard conservatives would think a private citizen owning the right such devices would be a bit much as well.
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/
The founding father's used capitalization to put emphasis on certain terms. It seems to me that they wanted the well regulated Militia, made up of the people, to keep and bear Arms to protect the State and by extension themselves from a tyrannical federal government. If they intended the people to bear arms, why did they add the terms Militia, State, and Arms with emphasis but the people without it?
The only other place in the Constitution that speaks about what constitutes a militia is the fifth amendment, and it specifically only protects a Militia when it is in service to the government, which again is capitalized because they wanted emphasis that it was a proper militia and not a make shift one.
I agree with you, but I wouldn't read that much into their writing. The English language was even more lawless in their day.
In fact, the German-style capitalization of nouns may have just been a stylistic choice by the calligrapher:
https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2012/fall/const-errors.html
What exactly do modern reprints have to do with why the founding fathers capitalize certain words?
No idea, I didn't say anything about modern reprints.
But your quote was specifically about modern reprints and nothing about why they original writers capitalized specific words.
Read it again, they didn't. It was a stylistic choice by the calligrapher.
The Second Amendment was never about hunting or home defense. It was about arming yourself against the government and to defend your other rights by force. In which case you should have every feature you can afford. Also, about muskets, the founding fathers understood the march of progress would eventually create bigger and more powerful smalls arms, they even wanted the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalthoff_repeater for their army to stay ahead. To think the second amendment only covers muskets is moronic.
Cool, so we'll be taking those away from law enforcement and the military too then, right?
How do you feel about the forced reset trigger?
Sounds fun
If they actually out-and-out banned anything, I'm sure it was for monetary reasons, not for health and safety. But idk, it seems like a small price to pay, you still get to feel like John Wayne whenever you want. Sorry you can't really fuck up that paper target like you want, but don't worry, it's dead.
The second amendment wasn’t made for plinking, hunting, or home defense. It was made to allow the common citizen to defend their rights by force against the government. In which case you should have every feature you can afford available to you.
No. It wasn't. I've seen you say this more than once in this thread. The right to bear arms was intended to defend the US against a foreign military, as the founding fathers did not want a standing army. Obviously that was retarded, but they were a bunch of rich slave owning assholes, so maybe you need a new set of guiding principles.
For what it's worth, people like you are necessary if we're going to have a future without gun violence while maintaining gun ownership. My understanding is that banning specific guns really doesn't do anything.
Most people stop at that, but I appreciate that you go on to say what will work instead. Mandatory safety classes and comprehensive background checks that include psychological evaluation are necessary. And if someone rabid comes into a safety class and says they want a gun to make a point or uses a racial slur in the process, they should be denied ownership and that should be recorded in a manner that background checks will see it. They'd be free to retake the class, but until they reform their behavior and show responsibility, they won't get a gun.
I reckon that's probably agreeable to you? I think it would go a long way. The other half of the puzzle is strengthening and enforcing the laws we currently have on the books. Police need to be held accountable if they refuse to enforce a gun law, including prosecution as an accessory to murder if warranted.
There's so many times after a shooting when information comes out that they were a troubled individual who showed some violent tendencies. That should have been caught in advance.
At this point it’s been proven psych evals don’t really work, firearms classes and background checks should be plenty to stop people with issues and allow us I not have our rights infringed upon.
Works for me. We should just have an option for a medical provider to say they don't believe the person will be safe with a gun -- this goes for not only homicidal tendencies, but people at risk of suicide.
Your ideas are incredibly radical. We first must imagine the mindset of dead 200 year old wealthy men before we do such a thing.
Or send anyone over the age of 16 who you wouldn't trust to be safe with a gun to reeducation camp until they get their shit together.
Yeah 100% if you want to own a class of gun (say a revolver) you should have to take a class on that specific type of gun and pass a written and practical test, and renew this regularly. Want a different type of gun? Better go take that class and pass that test.
Rabid anti gun folks are just as bad as the rabid pro gun folks, but the regular ass folks in the middle all seem to agree that strong controls on who can purchase the dangerous tool is the most reasonable solution
But this is lemmy, basically Reddit but more intense. I fully expect the folks here to be rabid anti gun without any rationale arguments for that stance
Your comment seems needlessly inflammatory, almost aggressive. I did not vote on it at all, but I would not be surprised if the downvotes you received were mostly because of that and not due to disagreement with your points.
Yeah my bad. I’m tired of every single time a fun in mentioned seeing “just get rid of all of them it’s so easy” then when I reply with reasonable solutions, get shit on. Just tired of it. Shouldn’t have bothered to comment on this thread in the first place
Copy pasted for like the 6th time now:
Yeah 100% if you want to own a class of gun (say a revolver) you should have to take a class on that specific type of gun and pass a written and practical test, and renew this regularly. Want a different type of gun? Better go take that class and pass that test.
Rabid anti gun folks are just as bad as the rabid pro gun folks, but the regular ass folks in the middle all seem to agree that strong controls on who can purchase the dangerous tool is the most reasonable solution
But this is lemmy, basically Reddit but more intense. I fully expect the folks here to be rabid anti gun without any rationale arguments for that stance
You are a walking strawman factory 🤣
Cool. I don’t care. I just want to keep my family safe. If that offends you I couldn’t give a fuck less
Yeah, I'm really feeling that lack of general empathy! No surprises here my man.
Yeah nothing but irritation for you folks in this thread
I'm personally calling you out for visibly having trouble with empathy in this thread, it's just you and me, don't have to diffuse it with a we like you and I aren't people talking.
I mean you might have an opinion so stupid that you just copy pasted 26 times in the thread, so plenty of other people have noticed how weird it seems and commented on it. But like, that's a you problem yanno?
I pasted that because my inbox kept filling up with obnoxious comments that all needed a similar reply, and I don’t care enough to personalize the message a dozen times for folks that aren’t giving r the same courtesy.
Fuck me for coming here expecting to have an actual conversation. In the beginning you could actually chat on lemmy, it was nice. This thread is just like the toxic Reddit I left.
Last time I try to have a conversation here.
Oh, you think you're having a conversation by copy and pasting the same shit that makes you seem weird, yeah, that seems like everyone else is the problem!!
At least something constructive came out of this.