My current setup is pretty dated, but still doing alright for what I'm playing, although I'd like better framerates and a bit more "futureproofing" for when I start playing the more demanding games in my backlog.
Parts are:
- R5 2600x;
- 2060 Super;
- 16GB @ 3466 16-18-18-18-36;
- 1440p 144Hz monitor.
Currently playing The Witcher 3 Next Gen at medium details, DLSS set to quality and no RT. I get 50-80 fps, which isn't too bad, but I'm aiming for high details and 120+ fps.
The most resource intensive game I have in my backlog is probably TLoU (or RDR2, or CP2077), and I'd like to play those at high/120 fps too, not really interested in RT.
At the moment I'm looking to get a 7800XT.
Do you think I can get away wih just a GPU + PSU upgrade, or would the 2600x cause too great a bottleneck at target resolution/details/fps to ignore?
For the GPU I'm considering a 7800XT instead of a 6800XT mainly because of the lower power consumption and slightly higher performance. Also the 7800XT comes with a very neat backplate plus GPU support bracket.
Issue is I don't know if that justifies a ~15% price increase (price right now is $600 equivalent for the 6800XT and $690 equivalent for the 7800XT).
I do like the looks of the 7800XT a bit more though lol so if current CPU and RAM can work with the new GPU at target resolution/details/fps, and there aren't huge drawbacks to getting the 7800X instead of the 6800XT, I'm willing to spend those extra $90 on the former.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance to anyone replying!
A 5600 is $250 less than a 5800x3d, and is 65 watts instead of 100. You'll not come anywhere near justifying a $350 processor unless you're spending $1000 on the video card as well.
Get yourself a used 5600 for under $100 since everyone is upgrading to a 5800x3d. Then buy yourself whatever GPU you're comfortable getting with your remaining budget. 6700, 7700, and 7800 are all good, with the 7700 probably being the most future proof per dollar, and 6700 being the most FPS per dollar. The 7800 is in a weird spot. I think it's probably just there to convince people to get the 7900.
And don't forget to update the bios before putting the new CPU in :)
Your PSU should be fine. It is rated at up to it's listed draw. If you wanna be safe, aim for 10% lower. I have a 7900xt + 5800x3d with 2 NVME drives and an AIO. With a kill-a-watt in the wall while gaming, I measure 430 watts going to the power strip for the PC plus 2 monitors (which pull 50 on their own with the tower off). Online power calculators are extra conservative. Your PSU could run my rig.
I also have a good Freesync monitor, and I quite honestly can't tell the difference between 90fps and 144fps. If you're getting 80+FPS consistently, let Freesync take care of the rest and don't worry about it.
A 5600 sounds like a great deal, but I'm questioning whether or not it would be a sound investment on the long run, as I'd rather not have to upgrade again before four or five years, especially considering I plan on playing two AAA games that should release in 2024 (hopefully haha). The difference in price between the 5600 and the 5800x3d in my country is considerable (around 160) but not enough to allow me to get a better GPU (I put a 6800XT on the wishlist) as a 7800 will cost exactly 150 more, while not actually providing a great improvement (something like 5-8% more FPS at 4k, and a lower TDP, besides FSR3 which, to be honest, if I can avoid using I rather play native). At least according to what I've been reading online.
The issue with running a PSU exactly at, or very close to, the sustained draw of your system is that it won't be able to withstand sudden GPU/CPU spikes, that can go way beyond what the PSU is rated for, am I wrong? At max load a 550W 80+ gold PSU (the one I have) will have 89% efficiency and provide 490W; TDP of reference 6800XT is 300W (and I read online that suggested PSU is 700W), but I'm getting a OC card and they suggest 750W, so I think my card's TDP should be something around 325W; TDP of 5600 is 65W. I have a NVME, a SSD and two HDDs, plus four case fans. I think it will be way too much to handle for my current PSU. Rather be safe than sorry haha Besides, I now have to upgrade PSU because I went conservative the first time around. Had I bought a 850W PSU then, I would have paid not much more and could've avoided spending again now so getting a more powerful PSU today will save me from upgrading agaon next time I get a better GPU and CPU (since I buy quality PSUs)
I can tell 90FPS from 144FPS. Is 90 not smooth enough? No, but 120+ is even smoother haha
The TPD of the components is their max rated draw. They will not exceed that draw. Any spikes under normal operation (aka gaming) are spikes up to that max rated number, not over. If you calculate your component's max power draw correctly you will never exceed your PSU's max draw.
No. A power supply's posted wattage is what it is rated to output. That is the max draw it will supply to the internal PC components. The efficiency rating is what tells you how much AC wattage from the wall is required to generate that 550 watts of DC power for the PC components.
A 550W PSU with 85% efficiency will require 647 watts of AC power from the wall to provide that 550W of output. A 90% efficient PSU will require 611 watts from the wall to do the same.
Additionally, PSUs function on curves based on draw. Here's Corsair's graph from their Choosing a Power supply page: https://res.cloudinary.com/corsair-pwa/image/upload/f_auto,q_auto/v1665096094/akamai/landing/PSU-Family-Page/diagrams/80Plus_Chart.jpg
Corsair (and most other PSU manufacturers) build their PSUs to maximize efficiency around the 50% load mark, which for a 550W PSU is 275W. However, pay attention to the Y axis of the chart. A Gold PSU is at 90% efficient at 50% load, but it's still 87% efficient at 80% load.
NVME and SSD drives pull 5W max. Fans are usually in the 2W range but running full speed are in the ~5W range.
Figure out your load requirements and know, don't guess.
A 5800x3d means you'll need a bigger PSU, but if you get a bigger PSU, you won't have enough to get a better GPU, so you won't need the 5800x3d. If you're really really insistent on getting something better than the 5600, wait for the 5600x3d. It should be ~$100 cheaper than the 5800x3d which will cover the cost of the PSU and is still a 105w TPD chip. The 5800 is overkill if you don't have the video card and components needed for it, and 4k gaming is actually slightly less intensive on CPUs compared to 1440p.
The short version of every question about upgrading is that the CPU isn't going to be what gets you to 120FPS. The GPU is. $100 extra dollars in the CPU is going to give you a couple more FPS. $100 more into the GPU is going to give you 10-20 more FPS.
Personal anecdote: I have a 5800x3d. The performance change when I upgraded from a 5600 was single digit FPS at best for the games I play. It was measurably different, but not perceptibly different. I'd have better performance putting that same money into a better GPU
Which country are you in? Finding a used 5600 should be really easy and cheap.
Thanks a lot for the follow up! Some things, though.
What does this mean, then?
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-7800-xt-nitro/38.html
If you go down a bit, where they list the 20ms spikes, their 6800XT spiked to 579W, which is well above the TDP (300-350W depending on model). Am I misunderstaing something?
So I can probably save some money and go for a 750W instead of a 850W, accounting for spikes as shown above
Unfortunately I'm not from the US, and it looks like it will be a MicroCenter exclusive!
I can get a new 5600/5600X for less than half the price of a 5800X3D (second hand market is kind of limited, and prices are, like, around 10% lower on the 5600), and since I will be playing games at 3440*1440 on the new monitor and won't be playing competitive games, I guess a 5600 should be enough to get 100/120 fps at that resolution. I'll keep looking into it! I'm not really in a hurry, to be honest, for various reasons, so I have time to keep researching
Thanks a lot!
edit: since I'm pretty new to recent-ish AMD cards (last AMD I got was a Sapphire HD 6850 lol), and you seem to know a bit about it, is Powercolor really a "tier 2" manufacturer? I was considering a Powercolor Red Dragon 6800XT, but after reading about it being a lower tier manufacturer, and freeing up some budget by getting a R5 5600, I'm now considering a Sapphire 7800XT Nitro+ instead. I usually prefer getting high quality parts, even if it means spending a bit more and sacrificing some performance, and I found a Sapphire N+ 7800XT for VERY cheap (only 75 more than the Powercolor 6800XT) so I'm considering getting it instead. Would help with PSU and futureproofing, since it consumes a lot less (especially the spikes) and it's faster, even if by a small margin, besides being one of the historic third parties for ATI/AMD
edit 2: pretty sure I had this bad boy https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/sapphire-hd-6850-vapor-x.b116 haha
edit 3: is a 5600x (154.50) worth it over a stock 5600 (132.60)? Very small price difference
Sorry about the late response.
The TPD is the Thermal Power Design. It's not actually the raw power draw that a component can experience, but over some aggregate time (like a minute) that's the amount of heat the component should generate at max draw. Heat (TPD) is therefore used as a good power estimate for how much the machine will use under max load because 1 watt of power consumed = 1 watt of heat generated. However the component can go over that limit. I was wrong on that and was using TPD as the actual draw.
For a PCIE card, the slot provides 75 watts, and each PSU lead provides an additional 150 watts. So on a 2 connector card the max power that the computer (PSU plus motherboard) can supply at any moment is 375 watts. I have no idea where the 579 number comes from. I guess it's possible if the card is reporting power consumed from capacitors onboard as well, and that power draw was brief enough.
The rest of the charts in that page show the card consuming the expected power amount.
A 750w should be perfectly fine. I have a 7900xt with 5800x3d, 2x NVME and AIO. It's running on a 750w PSU and has never pulled more than 450 from the wall, which includes my 2 monitor power draw as well.
A 5600 is a freaking solid processor. If you really want to go bigger and you can find a 5800 or 5900 for $50-60 more then that might be worth it. I really don't think the price gap from the 5800 to the x3d is worth the performance gain though (especially as someone who has on and saw single digit FPS gains at best, and in the majority of cases it was under 5, but can vary based on the games you play)
For AMD / Radeon card manufacturer quality, I honestly don't know. My 7900xt is my first card from them, and the price difference between the Sapphire and Powercolor was under $50 so I went for the quality part. I just followed the tier charts. Anecdotally I have seen comments from other people around Reddit that said powercolor is a perfectly fine manufacturer. I think whatever option gets you a 7800xt is the best one to go with.
For the 5600 vs 5600x, that's up to you. I had an X before my 5800x3d but never overclocked it, so that was essentially wasted money. From what I read about a year ago, once the 5600 had dropped low enough in price, the price increase vs performance increase of the X wasn't worth it. If you're going to overclock I think it could be worth it, but at that point a 5800x might make even more sense. That's all up you though.
Don't worry, thanks for the follow-up!
In the end I researched a bit more, and paying more for a 5600x isn't really worth it (15% higher price for 2% higher FPS); I'm going for a base 5600: 5800 and 5900 are way more (1.6-2x the price), so I'll settle with the budget option, especially considering thr doubts in the ending paragraph a little further down...
Yes, it says 20ms spikes, very brief. Don't know too much about it, and I can't find a 750W PSU for a decent price (almost the same as the 850W), so I'll just go with the more powerful one and call it a day. Not really worth it to pay 5% less and save just a few bucks
I'm also going for the Sapphire, it's basically the same price and the design has kind of grown on me, I really like it!
Thanks a lot for everything so far, I'll take a bit longer to think things over and then I'll see what to do (especially because I read that sometime in 2024 AMD should release their RX8000 and the performace jump should be pretty massive, so I might skip this upgrade and just go full bleeding edge build -so top tier AM5 X3D CPU, RX8800/8900, ultrawide monitor, and all other bells and whistles- when those new cards drop). I'm questioning whether investing 1k now on a EOL platform (AM4) is really worth it or not!
I think waiting a year and doing a full AM5 build is a fantastic idea, especially if you're looking at spending $1k right now. The 7900xtx was announced last year around this time and shipped in Dec, so hopefully you'll be hearing about the 8000 series GPUs by the end of next year. Also, am5 has mostly worked out their first gen kinks too, so the next gen mobos and 8000 series CPUs should be great.
I told myself when I made my current PC that I was going to skip the am5 generation and wanted my PC to last ~5 years which is why I splurged on the 5800x3d and 7900xt (but couldn't bring myself to spend another $300 for the xtx).
I think if you're going to upgrade again in a year, your only question now is covering the gap. If you can live with what you've got now that's obviously the cheapest option. If you really do want some more FPS, then I'd say grab the 5600 and a cheaper but better GPU like the 6700xt are the way to go. If you do a 6700 you'll definitely be fine with your current PSU. That'll give you the best bang for your buck and help kick start your budget for next year's build.
Yeah, I think I'm definitely gravitating towards skipping this gen and splurge on the new cards once they land. Hopefully the rumors about the performance jump from RX7000 to RX8000 prove true, that's the only reason I even considered not upgrading.
Since my ideal setup includes playing at 3440x1440 120+ FPS, the only current gen cards able to do so are extremely expensive (7900XTX and beyond, basically) and today I can't afford both any of those GPUs and the monitor; if the RX8000 performance is as good as the leaks say it is, and if prices don't go too much higher, I think I can get target resolution and FPS with a RX8800 or RX8900, spending just as much as I'd be spending today, but on an platform that's not EOL.
Now I have to hold on ultil that release, guess I'll be playing games that aren't too demanding for a while longer! Thanks again!
Sounds like a good plan! The hardest part of having some money in your pocket is not spending it :)