this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
410 points (96.0% liked)
Memes
45681 readers
715 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Dude, piss off. Ya aint gonna convince anyone. All youre doing is being an annoying cunt online, all youre doing is showing once again why lots of people dislike vegans.
Your argumants are shallow and whomst their for is made of straw.
Plus what he is talking about applies to basically factory farming. Same thing with chicken eggs. In a small farm setup they mostly live out their productive lives. Granted when unproductive they tend to lose their life although I suppose some softies will hang onto them as sorta pets.
I like the idea that we can end life as soon as it's deemed "unproductive". You'd hope an alien life form that finds us is more empathetic than that wouldn't you.
Not necessarily. I want the right to die as a human. I would rather die like my dogs than my parents.
I... don't understand your point, are you being purposefully vague? How did you parents die that wasn't preferable to your dogs?
In the case of this argument, if an alien species did land on earth and treat us like cattle for food (based on our own subjugation of "lesser species"), are you saying that's fine because you "want the right to die"?
I really really don't get what you're trying to say here.
Im saying the life of an animal that is kept through its productive years could be a lot worse. I have had to put down dogs because their quality of life was just to poor and you can't do that with humans. Do the farm animals on a small farm that values their animals die sooner. Yeah. But its still a pretty decent life and longer than the wild would typically give them. If an alien species treated us like cattle they would have to be powerful enough to and if they were there is little we could do about it because after all we would do everything we can. Granted they would know we had reading, writing, and arithmetic and had developed chemistry, physcics, and had at this point started editing our genetic code. With the power they would presumably wield this would be something they would have to debate with themselves and only they could leave us free or not. I mean if we wanted we could have monkey farms or dolphin. Honestly the best arguments I have heard for those are from vegans who push that its all the same anyway so if your not going vegan you might as well eat meat every single meal.
Ah okay, thanks for the explanation.
I think a lot of your argument boils down to "Us vs Nature", that the farm life of a cow is preferable to what might happen in the wild.
Don't forget that male cow (steer) are typically killed on their first birthday, with some pasturalised cattle getting to live until 3. A cow is meant to live until 15-20. Male chickens are ground up or gassed upon birth. Dairy cows are kept constantly pregnant and separated from calves until they dry up and are no longer profitable by which time they're immediately slaughtered. Sows are kept in sow stalls so cramped they can't physically move, often never seeing daylight their entire life.
I think I'd take freedom over that.
If an alien species does come down, you'd hope they'd be more moral than us humans and wouldn't factory farm us huh.
I don't advocate for a complete vegan diet to start with if you can't. Every meal you don't eat meat is better for you, the animal and the planet. Substituting ingredients is easy, especially with fake mince - it's probably the best faux meat there is.
Male cattle used to be used for the plow. Again its a modern thing to just kill them. Male chickens are another matter as there was not much use for more than one and they tended to fight. Sows again your talking the modern factory farming thing. Yeah I was trying to cut out one animal at a time and my goal was only eggs and cheese but I have given up given how much I hear from folks its all the same and just as bad. Its pretty hard to stay motivated honestly and I simply have not been able to eat vegan meal after meal. I used to think the vampires shows were the "good" vampire fell off the wagon and drained humans was dumb but my experiences cutting out meat makes me think if I was a vampire I would likely be drinking humans.
Ooh, which of my arguments are shallow? Go on hahaha there's literally no defense against veganism beyond "I just don't care about the destruction I leave in my wake"
Well ignoring your dumbass comment I responded to, simple a lot of livestock is less intensive to maintain than farmland and can even be better than not doing it. The city and county in my area rent cattle to keep brush down. The problem most vegans have with livestock raising or even fishing is endemic to all forms of agricultural practices. You know that almpnd milk ya drink, yeah its probably helping make water more scarce here in California. Meanwhile I can get milk from a dairy a bit away from my house where the cows eat brush and drink water from the ranches water collection system.
The name of the game is harm reduction, while industrial farming generally sucks for the animals it is improving over time (at least here in California, fuck if I know what Utahs foing). Lots of Vegan shit is worse for the environment cause of water usage alone let alone shipping.
Oh and also, lots of farms exploit labor and guess what it takes a lot more labor to raise fucking beans than it does cows, goats, or swine.
Mind you I dont go out my way to eat needlessy wasteful animal products (lookin at you veel) because im not a complete asshole. I follow my ancestors philosophy, give it a long life good then slaughter it gets ya more and better quality meat.
Haha it's literally the opposite. Plant based agriculture grows 512% more pounds of food than animal-based agriculture, with 69% of the land. Animal agriculture uses more water, emits more greenhouse gas, uses more land, and produces less of the world's nutritional needs. You may be referring to "regenerative farming" with animal excrement fertilising soil, but crop rotation and reduced over-tilling is equally efficacious.
Wrong again. It takes 628 litres of water to make a litre of bovine milk, 371 for almond milk, and 28 for soy (which is what I drink, for that very reason).
I can't find any source either way on that, pasture.io says crop farming requires less physical labour, but they don't seem to cite anything. What I do know is that slaughterhouse workers have severely increased risk of mental health disorders directly resulting from their work.
Ah, the Appeal To History Fallacy, my ancestors did ritual slaughter of virgins so it's morally okay to continue doing so!
To sum up, it really sounds like you haven't done literally any research here. If the world swapped to veganism, global land use for agriculture would reduce by 75%. Food related emissions would reduce by 70% (that's 15% of the ENTIRE world's greenhouse gas emissions). And that doesn't even mention animal welfare concerns.
Feel free to reply - I have overwhelming scientific support. I remember when I wasn't vegan, desperately searching for ANY studies that supported my desire to continue living a destructive, immoral lifestyle. In the end, I just listened to logic and reason and turned vegan.
Look the only reason I brought up my ancestors is that I was explaining my reasoning behind my actions. Admitedly I lean towards the abjectly most bloodthirsty and violent side of my ancesteral traditions, but it hasnt fucked me over yet.
As for water use of cattle, while it is quite high that has far more to do with alfalfa than anything else. Yet again an issue of factory farming, that more free range aint got a problem with.
Also I may have mistyped but I meant on the almonds to be in relation to local aquafure use and not in gross total.
But frankly speaking, I dont give a fuck. If I had to choose between growing my own food or just killing someone and eating them im gonna go with option b.
Regardless im autistic and most vegetables make me want to cut off my tongue due to their texture. There no way in hell id becoem vegan short of synthetic meats becoming cheap enough for my poor ass.
No kidding. You aren't refuting the Appeal To History Fallacy, you're doubling down even. Cavemen used tribalistically murder and rape, that doesn't mean it's okay to do now. You're smarter than that. You don't need to do things because cavemen once did.
Forgetting that almonds (which I suggest people DONT eat) use 50% less water than cows, groundwater was the source of 62% of total livestock withdraws in the US. I agree that almonds are too water intensive, we should shift to soy which uses >20x less water.
Which is what I said at the beginning. The only valid argument against veganism is when someone says "I know a vegan diet is healthier, better for the planet and better for the animals, but I still choose to kill and eat animals". There's no arguing against someone who ignores reason to satisfy their tastebuds.
I'm sure if an autistic cannibal came along and said "I don't like the texture of animals, I only eat human children and women" we wouldn't accept that as an excuse.
Cavemen probably had better moral barometers than tbh, what with the fact that most Eurosians have neanderthal genes. Doubt most cavemen would want to eradicate the leadership of an enemy tribe all because of a petty grudge built up over a hundred years. Doesnt stop me from wanting to inflict that apon the seventh day adventist, this isnt even family policy thats all me.
Also at best with the ground water thing and cows youve made me appreciate how fucking useful chickens are, creating constant source of nutrients and you can eat em fucking a.
Also I suspect the reason vegans are on average healthy is less cause their diet is inately better but more cause they are more focused on that in general, but I dont really care.
As fore the last one, whatever caused such a scenario its safe just go with it and make synthetic human meat for em.
When the truth is unbearable, one either rages around like Rumpelstiltskin or starts to contemplate about it.
So just keep having fun with disliking people.
Yknow I hate flat earthers, seventh day adventists, and law enforcement. My dislike of them is different for each group, I hate flat earthers cause theyre fucking stupid, I hate seventh day adventists cause theyre a cult whos been annoying my family for over a hundred years, and I hate law enforcement cause theyre generally corrupt and/or thugs.
Hatred, rage, and dislike rarely indicates the rightness of ones point, if it did then I guess the Armenians think the young Turks were right in theit actions.
But the thing is you aint worth actual hatred you simply annoyed me and as much as I dislike those that annoy me I enjoy arguing with em.