this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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Failure to integrate is the right answer. At some point immigrant children ceased to have proper access to proper socio-economic status and a parallel society developed which, Scandinavians being Scandinavians, the majority ignored. It's been a difficult time for the prospects of youth in general but that hit the immigrant population way harder as they're not as embedded in the local social network, no "cousin of a parent owns a repair shop he'll give you a job and tide you over".
Active xenophobia isn't even needed, all that's need is a failure to see and care. It's also generally a urban problem, both because not enough care was taken to encourage immigrants to not be urbanites (a common bias with arrivals is that "city is where the jobs are, rural areas are shitholes" which isn't at all true for Europe in general), as well as urban society generally being ass at reaching out to people, smaller places are way more tight-knit.
Of course, with shit having hit the fan xenophobia then becomes an issue of its own reinforcing the very issues that caused everything, and down the shitchute we go.
Integration should be the responsibility of anyone who enters another country. I wouldn't go to Japan or Germany and expect them to slice off a chunk of their territory and call it America for me.
What part of "children" did you not understand, those were generally born and raised Swedes. But more generally speaking: The appeal to individual responsibility is a cop-out. It's literally the bootstrap argument. What are people to do when there's no fucking bootstraps?
Then they should have no problem if they are going to the same public schools.
What part of "not as embedded in the local social network" did you not understand? Am I speaking Klingon?
You're trying very hard to not understand the underlying issues and mechanics, aren't you.
It's classic fascist troll.
You don't want immigrant children going to school with the same kids as the local population?
You got terribly lost. Go back and re-read what I wrote. What did I say about the cousin who owned a repair shop? How many children of immigrants have that kind of connection into the local economy?
You can't integrate yourself when you face racism. When the locals put you and all people vaguely your skin color in the same place, it's not them taking the place, it's you giving them the place and abandoning them there.
Where is your support for such a claim? All Swedish citizens, regardless of ethnicity or any other factor, have free access to and abundance of social support:
In Sweden, you do not get forced into the life of a criminal, it's a choice you make. But in order to integrate, you must be willing, and therein lies the root of the problem.
No but you might get forced into the life of a perpetually unemployed, be looked down on by nearly everyone the whole of your life. Note how I said "status", not just "money". Noone lives for money alone.
Again these cop-outs. What you say doesn't even begin to make sense. How is someone willing or not willing the root of the problem? That people are or are not willing has causes! Find your root there, continue to investigate, don't cut off you interest at the exact point where you can blame everything on someone else.
Immigrants have the same possibilities as everyone else in Sweden.
So if it's not their willingness to integrate, what is it then?
My god. I live in the country I was born in and even I can see that the odds are not stacked equally for immigrants. Sorry, but itβs hard to take your comment in good faith, hence the downvote.
Do you live in Sweden? Or how do you know that?
I already explained why the possibilities are not the same. Are you going to address that directly, or just assume I don't remember what I said?
You said:
What does that even mean, give us an example is what I'm saying.
Do you want me to explain what socio-economic status means? Because I already explained the access part. I also explained, elsewhere in this thread, that it doesn't simply mean money.
But long story short: It's what long-term unemployed don't have. At least not in current European societies.
There are long term unemployment amongst all groups in Sweden and systems in place to fix it. Why do immigrants stand out?
Because they're not as adept at having their criminality blend in than more native Swedes.
Blend in? Wth are you talking about? And you started this with som socio-economic ramblings. I really don't think you know as much as you think you do.
It's hard to even know what to say to this.. Everything you've been saying has been pretty disingenuous, I think it's called virtue signalling.
Lol, Ok thats funny. And what virtue would that be?
It's equal opportunity bro, everyone has exactly the same opportunities, foreigners are treated just as well as Swedes, the only reason they're not succeeding is because they're lazy immigrants ofc.. So fucking whack.
Well shit man, you said it, but I never did. Seems you've good some defined conception, though, so feel free to share.
Or don't I couldn't give a fuck really
Yup
I was more referring to how you said immigrants are lazy.
It's implied by what you say and the attitude towards them.
No it's not, and here is an opportunity for you to learn something new: just because you might feel something is implied, or if you think someone holds a certain opinion doesn't make it so. Don't assume, just ask if you need to.
So then what exactly were you saying? Because whatever you were saying, I as a foreigner in Sweden, definitely don't have the same perspective as you. Whatever rose tinted glasses you're looking at the Swedish system through doesn't seem to reflect the reality of many foreigners, most especially refugees. But it's easy to just say "everyone has the same opportunities here".
Vad Γ€r det som jag har som inte du har menar du?
I think you're making a very good point with the big city/rural areas argument. I'm sure most people, that have lived abroad would agree that surrounding yourself with people from similar origin is so incredibly easy. And to avoid that in big cities, where such societies are already established, someone has to purposely work on it. And that in itself is much more difficult and much lonelier than the alternative. And if your motivation for moving is solely economical, why would you do that?