this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
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The new fairphone 5 came out, it looks cool but the price is really, really high..

If it's a phone that can really last 10 years it could be good, but is that true? Is it worth it? I could get the one with /e/os from Murena because i want a degoogled phone with a bootloader locked, but is it usable on a daily basis?

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

No.

No headphone jack, no buy. It's not a question of whether a headphone jack is useful to you, it's just the principle of it - there's no good reason to remove it (especially for the asking price of FP5), and more importantly, it goes against what the Fairphone stands for, IMO. I can understand if it were some other profit-driven company making a shrewd business decision, but for Fairphone to do it, seems very unfair to me.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There is a good reason to remove it. Especially for a company like fairphone. Why waste resources and money into making a redundant component (USB-C can do audio, also the majority of people have switched to wireless audio) when you're trying to make a planet-conscious product?

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There is no good faith argument that can be made for the removal of the headphone jack. Companies removed it to sell overpriced wireless headphones.
They said it was due to size, but new phones are quite chunky these days so that's not true. Waterproofing? Can be done, many phones have waterproofing and a headphone jack.
Costs? Come on it's a very simple, very old, plastic bit.
And sustainability? "planet-conscious"? You must be kidding. It's way better to use regular headphones than the wireless pieces of crap with batteries and an amplifier and a bluetooth receiver in them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Well good luck then. Because enough of us have absolutely no problem with using the usbc or Bluetooth. I rarely even listen to music anymore anyway so it's not something I use.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Companies removed it to sell overpriced wireless headphones.

Of course, I'm not denying this. That still doesn't negate my point about audio jacks being redundant ports.

It’s way better to use regular headphones than the wireless pieces of crap with batteries and an amplifier and a bluetooth receiver in them.

Yes, and those regular headphones CAN be plugged into phones without headphone jack via the USB-C port

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think phones without a headphone jack should have a second USB C port instead.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I miss the simplicity of plugging in something that worked reliably well 100% of the time tho

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

majority of people have switched to wireless audio

Citation needed. Also, just because people have "switched" to wireless doesn't mean that they don't have a pair of old wired headphones still lying around somewhere, unused, eventually turning into e-waste. Also, I suspect a significant portion of Fairphone users are the kind who'd still hold on to wired headphones.

when you're trying to make a planet-conscious product?

The first rule in making a planet-conscious product is the RRR - Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. If people already have wired headphones, then the most eco-friendly solution would be to enable users to continue to use them, and not force them to buy even more new products. And as a manufacturer, there's practically no shortage of 3.5mm jacks around (plenty of old devices where the parts can be recycled from), and there's almost no complexity involved in wiring up or making circuitry for something that's been a standard for several decades.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also, just because people have “switched” to wireless doesn’t mean that they don’t have a pair of old wired headphones still lying around somewhere, unused, eventually turning into e-waste.

Another use-case for the headphone jack: I use it to connect my phone to various audio devices, e. g. E-drums for practising playback or the practice room PA tolisten to demos. Nearly all professional equipment uses wired connections.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Not to mention that unlike the wireless buds, headphones I used ten years ago and sat on a shelf that whole time will all still work 100% of the time. Show me wireless battery powered crap that can claim that

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Citation needed.

I don't have a source ready with me to back up my statement. But at least here in India, almost everyone I see in public transportation use wireless earbuds. Usually I look like the odd one out for wearing wired earphones.

If people already have wired headphones, then the most eco-friendly solution would be to enable users to continue to use them, and not force them to buy even more new products.

You absolutely don't need to go out and buy a new headphones if your phone doesn't have an audio jack. Just buy a dongle. Yes, I'm aware that this is worse for the planet than just including an audio jack in the phone. But if you buy a dongle once, you don't have to worry about your future phones not having a headphone jack. So in the long run, this move is better for the planet.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

How is buying a dongle you shouldn't need better for the planet than a phone manufacturer providing a headphone jack??? The phone already has a DAC in it, they literally only need to include the actual port

almost everyone I see in public transportation use wireless earbuds. Usually I look like the odd one out for wearing wired earphones.

your sample is incredibly biased, you're taking 1 demographic and assuming everyone acts like that. Go into a recording studio and see how many wireless headphones they use, Go to a concert and see how they are driving their speakers. Just because a lot of consumers use wireless earphones in an environment that doesn't lend itself to good audio (like public transport), doesn't mean most people are using it.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How is buying a dongle you shouldn’t need better for the planet than a phone manufacturer providing a headphone jack??

Did you even read my reply fully?

Go into a recording studio and see how many wireless headphones they use

Recording studios also don't use a smartphone to do their work.

Even if we do assume that the majority of the world still uses wired earphones, it still makes sense to remove the audio jack for reasons I have explained already.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You haven't provided a single good reason. Why are you fighting this so hard? Samsung isn't gonna kiss you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Ah yes, it is totally unfair to expect consumers who prefer wired audio to make a one time purchase of a 10$ dongle. Instead phone manufacturers should continue to ship every single phone with an audio jack for years to come. And anybody who says it is fine to remove the audio jack because those who prefer wired audio can use a dongle is obviously a samsung shill.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I find it hilarious since we both are from India, and an incredible amount of people utilise the 3.5 mm jack for their $10 earphones. You do not even understand or care for the demographic choice, and are encouraging people buy wireless TWS they need to replace every 2 years, when they can get by with wired earphones half the price. Within a span of 10 years, people would buy $20 of wired earphones versus $500 of wireless ones. This does not even include the possibility of many people losing one of the two wireless earbuds, causing another purchase.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it's not a redundant component at all. USB-C doesn't carry analogue audio. You need an external DAC to convert that digital signal to analogue to make it usable. You can't plug your headphones into a USB-C port.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Regarding the "no good reason to remove it," my understanding was that Samsung opted to remove it to increase the water resistance rating. Unfortunately the fairphone 4 only has an IP54 rating, so that's certainly not the case here.

Apparently they address the headphones jack question in an article on fairphone's support page.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not arguing with you btw, but the excuses they've provided are all BS. For starters, IP rating isn't really an issue - the Pixel 5a, Galaxy A52, Xperia 5 V, Zenfone 10 - all have a headphone jack, and a minimum of IP65, even going up to IP68 (Pixel 5a), so that really can't be an excuse. Also, cost can't be an excuse either, considering the examples I've provided consists of both budget and premium phones.

The only answer that makes sense here is GREED. Nothing but plain and good ol capitalism at work.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think Air Pods netted Apple more money than Spotify's annual revenue or some shit.

Which is why Samsung gave up after making fun of Apple.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

For some time, air pods would have been a top 20 company on their own or something like that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Solid agree.

The Galaxy S5 from ~7 years ago was submersible, had a headphone jack, and was pretty damn slim.

Any points made by manufacturers now for 3.5mm removal IMO are just excuses in my eyes. A supply chain issue is the only reason I'll (selfishly) accept.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

S5 also had a removable back cover and battery.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

i took a chance with the FP4 and bought it even though it has no 3,5mm jack. i absolutely hate it. if there's no headphone jack on the next model, i will have to switch to nokia or shiftphone.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"This phone has a port I'm not going to use & I'm angry out of morals"

I'm still on a CRT because most new TV don't have AVI for some reason, I convert AVI to HDMI on my CRT but its about the morals.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Those legacy connectors (AV, SCART, S-Video, RF Modulators etc.) have had a superior replacement with no compromises though, HDMI.

The 3.5mm jack hasn't really had a viable replacement IMO, and to be honest I don't think it needs one. Personally I use bluetooth headphones when I'm out, usually switching it off in shopping environments (see #1 below) but indoors everything is 3.5mm.

My main problems with the omission of the 3.5mm jack are...

  • privacy: Beacon trackers can follow you through a store by monitoring the bluetooth packets between your phone and headphones
  • Limited spectrum space: if you've been on public transport where everyone is wearing BT headphones, the signal is terrible. Newer versions of BT are much better at frequency hopping compared to the old ones, but it's still not a great listening experience
  • interference: retrofitting/replacing a perfectly good sound system just to add Bluetooth capabilities isn't realistic for everyone. Most of the retrofit BT recievers add unnecessary interference to a sound setup, and this gets worse if you need a longer cable to put the aftermarket reciever somewhere to get a better BT signal for your phone
  • dongles: they're a solution, however IMO it's a bit of a janky one that puts unnecessary strain on your charging port when you're out and about. They also may consume more battery life (external ADC via USB, if your device/headphones/dongle does not support amplifying audio directly over the C port) and even more jank when the headphone cable is weighing down the dongle. In something like a car, or maybe home too, these dongles are OK, but they're a non starter for people who like to go out and about.

My biggest issue though is the planned obselecence stuff. The tiny li-ion batteries in the buds being pushed by manufacturers as a "3.5mm replacement" are likely going to get their recharge cycles rinsed out with frequent usage, leading the consumer to buy new buds every 2 years, just like with phones. It's really disappointing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

if only USB C headphones existed, also 3.5mm jacks aren't prefect and tend to snap and get warn out quite quickly.

But like your comment is completely beside the point, your allowed to want a headphone jack and u can freely dictate your purchasing habits due to that. But it isn't anything to do with Morals

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

True, worn out 3.5mm jacks are very annoying.

I'm in no way trying to imply they're perfect - IMO there's always room for improvement. I just don't think a low tolerance 10 gigabit, 100W capable connector is the right choice to replace a port that gets a lot of abuse.

I did get a bit carried away in my response though tbh, I did not notice you were focused on the morals part - I agree a connector jack is not a moral issue

I just double checked OP's post (now edited) and couldn't see anything related to morals though, unless they've removed it?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

yea original comment included something along the lines of "im not going to buy it even if i don't need a 3.5mm jack, just out of morals"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

On the GrapheneOS side, a used Pixel 5a js the last good phone... both size and a headphone jack. Sucks a lot.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Too bad the ultrawide on it is trash, and the battery is subpar. And it is outdated.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I like a headphone jack and definitely prefer to have one but even to me that's a really fucking stupid comment!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Often a phone with no heasphone jack will offer a higher degree of waterproofing performance. Not the case with the Fairphone, I'm guessing because it's modular. But doesn't that mean I can add a headphone jack?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Personally, I don't want a huge hole in my phone and case that I'm never going to take advantage of. Wireless headphones with noise cancelling and such are far more convenient when outside than the open backs I use at my computer. The DAC in most desktops suck so I use a USB-C to 3.5mm anyways, makes it really easy to plug into my phone if I ever needed.

Just my opinion for my situation, but I would honestly rather buy the same phone without a headphone jack than one that did.