this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
88 points (98.9% liked)
Entertainment
4594 readers
1 users here now
Movies, television and Broadway.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It's not transphobia in general. It's a misunderstanding of the sudden language shift that trans rights activists created. It doesn't fit with traditional language and was sudden shift that only existed in niche online spaces.
I'm somewhat convinced that Russian troll farms started it around the time the first bathroom bill came about from some right wing think tank.
Trans activists are just bad at messaging and explaining their position. Many are downright hostile to begin with if you are a standard cis person.
Help me to understand how this is not a disingenuous comment. I only skimmed the article but I completely fail to see where a 'sudden language shift' comes into play. There are quite literally slurs in this article.
Sure, these reactions aren't happening in a vacuum and the author of the article tells people to shut up if they don't understand trans activism or the attempt at shifting language in the case of Middler. I won't defend all of these people because I'm not aware of everything they've said.
In the case of Chappelle, he's just capitalizing on the political climate. There's nothing wrong with criticism and that goes back to what I said prior and my criticism of this author. That activists will attack anybody who doesn't understand their entire world immediately.
The trans rights movement took off during 2016 and the NC bathroom bill. A bill designed to cause conflict along political lines leading up to the election. At the same time I noticed a shift in rhetoric and it was almost like some obscure corner of Tumblr just went on a rampage across the internet with new talking points about more than two genders, wierd pronouns etc. Many people are not going to understand that kind of thing, especially older people.
Of course this anti-trans rhetoric comes from the far right, but trans activists and people pretending to be them don't make it easy to see where they're coming from.
If we look at the gay rights movement, it was much different. Trans people do deserve to be angry about what is happening to them in the untied states, but at the same time if they want to be more widely accepted they need more clear messaging and they need to accept that people don't understand even the most basic principles of what makes someone trans.
You can't just shut people out and shout them down when they don't know what you're talking about because then they will discard your entire position wholesale.
Of course there are bad faith actors on the right who will pretend to want to 'debate' that's not who I'm talking about. It's the people in the middle who would accept you if only you would accept them even with their faults.
Your comment seemed rather like a defense, yet now you're saying you're not aware of what they've said? Why did you come in here trying to defend them?
I see that you're trying to make a point about language, but it really doesn't help for you to be defending these people while you make it.
This sounds dangerously close to tone policing
I mean, maybe they aren't trying to reach the people they're shouting at? It's kind of hard to be civil to the very people who are quite literally threatening your life. I also think it's kind of fucked up to be telling trans people that they need to convince others of their humanity? Why are we putting such a burden on the people who are being marginalized by society?
It wasn't a defense because I can't tell you from what place these people were coming from or how much or little they thought through their statements and how much they do or don't understand about being trans. It's worth exploring where these people are coming from if you want to change the publics perception of Trans people. You accusing me of being in defense of transphobia is exactly what I'm talking about. Many of these people were lamenting the sudden new wave of political correctness that they didn't understand. Telling them to shut up doesn't get them on your side. "You get more flies with honey."
Trans people are fighting against a multi-billion dollar advertising campaign against them. They're simply a convenient Boogeyman for the far right. It's a very niche to be trans, so unfortunately, advocating for yourself comes with the territory just like any other minority group that has fought to be more widely accepted.
You entered this thread to say "it's not transphobia" and that it was just "shifting language". This was in response to someone who said it was transphobia. Furthermore when called out on this, you then said you're not aware of what they said. How am I supposed to interpret this as anything but a defense?
I apologize if it ever came off that way, but my intent was not to tell you to be quiet. My intent was to ask you questions about your stance.
I said I'm not aware of everything that was said by each of these individuals, I did read the article which does tell critics to shut up and lacks direct quotes to each incident.
As far as I'm aware, transphobia has a very specific meaning. It gets used very loosely as "those who disagree" or those who don't understand what we're talking about.
Conservatives want activists to push regular people away. When you do that, then you become isolated. Unfortunately, you're stuck playing their game.
It's not always about playing their game or saying what will appeal to them. We are especially a safe space for minorities, including trans people, and it's not particularly welcoming when you defend people called out for transphobia. If you want to discuss the merits of having discussions with people who need to learn that's an entirely different conversation.
It probably isn't your intent, but it really seems like you're repeatedly trying to drive home the point that trans people are unreasonable and it's not particularly appreciated by myself or others on this instance. I'm going to have to ask you to stop this line of reasoning and avoid discussing it on this instance in the future.
I remember talking to someone complaining about an article supportive of underage people transitioning, and the main thing he was outraged about was based on, he didn't understand that people have different concepts for gender and sex, and so he honestly thought that the article must be talking about bottom surgery and that was the only thing the words it was using could mean. It wasn't just disingenuous rhetoric, he actually misunderstood and accepted being corrected on that.
Traditionally these words are/were used interchangeably and getting people to re-learn words is difficult, but an important part of getting people to accept trans people.
What "sudden language shift"? There's nothing new or difficult about it.
And what? It is objectively transphobic. I think people like yourself should be silenced, but if there's one thing certain about transphobe defenders, it is that you lot never shut the fuck up.
I'm not trans btw, I'm not even a good person, I'm just not a colossal waste of oxygen