this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
307 points (92.1% liked)

Today I Learned

17430 readers
1 users here now

What did you learn today? Share it with us!

We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.

** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**



Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Partnered Communities

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

πŸ‘‰wiki

πŸ‘‰Tate Article

Instructions: There are 72 objects on the table that one can use on me as desired.

Performance: I am the object. During this period I take full responsibility.

Duration: 6 hours (8pm–2am.) Studio Morra, Naples

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Lmaydev 282 points 1 year ago (7 children)

As Abramović described it later: "What I learned was that ... if you leave it up to the audience, they can kill you ... I felt really violated: they cut up my clothes, stuck rose thorns in my stomach, one person aimed the gun at my head, and another took it away. It created an aggressive atmosphere. After exactly 6 hours, as planned, I stood up and started walking toward the audience. Everyone ran away, to escape an actual confrontation."

I swear so many people are actual psychopaths and just good at hiding it.

[–] [email protected] 120 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A lot of people aren't even good at hiding it, their traits are just seen as virtues in our modern capitalist society

[–] Lmaydev 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Couldn't agree more. Lack of empathy seems to be a requirement to get to the top.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

The idea that you can climb at all is a myth. The psychopaths start at the top and stay there.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago

"After exactly 6 hours, as planned, I stood up and started walking toward the audience. Everyone ran away, to escape an actual confrontation."

Sounds like the Internet in a nutshell

[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (1 children)

what always stand out to me every time I come across this story is the person who took the gun away

[–] Lmaydev 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah it seemed the audience divided into attackers and protectors.

Genuinely a very interesting story.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I think it really proves the act as art to me. Feels like a definite statement, intentional or not

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What would you even do? If I saw this as an advertised event, I wouldn't go. Neither participating or spectating sounds very interesting. Only psychopaths are going to show up.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

This sums it up for me. An invitation can be open to everyone, but the activity they're being invited to will determine what sort of people show up. When I read, "Come and do whatever you like to an unresisting human who will sit still for six hours," I immediately turn away--not just because I'm not interested in "doing whatever I like" to a person, but because I don't want to be in a room with the crowd of people that I imagine would want to do whatever they like to a person.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The authorities should recreate this act to use as a honeypot to identify all the psychos in society.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

You can start for free by testing all the middle-managers.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

The British have something similar at Buckingham palace. Theirs these guards that just stand around being motionless as possible which attracts people who want to do funny shit to them. They attempt funny shit and get arrested

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

We already have systems in place to funnel ask the sociopaths into positions where they can be monitored by everyone. It's called capitalism and politics.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And do what? Being a psycho isn't illegal in itself.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Assault is, and much of what was done to her would qualify.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is it still assault if it's consensual?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most likely. For example you can't consent to allowing someone to kill you - see the case where a man agreed to be killed and eaten by someone else.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3286721.stm

The man who killed him was ultimately convicted.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

We're talking about the things that happened in that performance though, not killing someone.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

What the fuck. Like I'd throw some paint at her or draw something funny on her but my god.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait was the gun fake or real

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was real and loaded. The actor was commited to any outcome including being murdered on stage.

The audience first tested the waters and gradually escalated to more extreme forms of violence. When the violence started the audience factionalized into those who were committed to stopping her from being shot, arguing and shaming aggressors or physically stepping in.

While I don't know if I can condone the piece ethically it certainly says more about human nature than most art pieces.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I hope someone made a list of everyone who hurt that poor woman.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Weirdly I don't know if I could class her as a "poor woman" ? She was the one who set up all the objects on the table which included ones that were potentially lethal and she specified the parameters of the piece and very specifically could have stopped the performance at any time by moving of her own volition and speaking. She went into it accepting her own murder as a potential outcome and was committed to carrying on regardless of what happened. It being an art peice would not have protected a participant from a murder charge while assult charges have to be made by the victim of the assault... So there was at least that.

While she may not have been able to account for the long term psychological effects and may have had some initial optimism that people would not choose the darker options made available... I think terming her a "poor woman" might actually be dismissive of the actual volition and personal grit she had in the construction and performance of the piece? While it may have been ballsy to the point bordering madness dangerous stunt performances where athletes risk death for their audiences are a thing and those performers go in with the same expectation of potential fatality.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nah, blaming her is weaksauce. It's not about the art show. It's about the fact that people were hurting an innocent woman -- and she is innocent regardless of her choices -- and doing shit they're not supposed to be doing regardless of what she says.

The people who made the choice to hurt her should have been recorded and exposed so we know who to trust and who we can't.

The art show exposed a truth that humanity has to learn to accept if it's to protect itself from evil.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not saying that I am blaming her. The people who hurt her were definitely not good people... Just saying that I feel weird about her being called "poor woman" - like it minimizes the guts of what she did.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well, I don't mean it in that way at all, if that helps.