this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
557 points (95.9% liked)

News

23014 readers
5 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

How is she eligible for release if she’s found guilty of two murders? Or 15 years rather than something like 40? Murder is one of the few things I think should carry a punitive sentence rather than rehab.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Don't think people can ever change, eh?

A punitive system does not a good society make.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Well said Yoda

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Giving them a chance to change is very different than granting leniency. She should have a serious opportunity at rehabilitation, but she shouldn't be free in society unless you'd feel safe leaving her with your loved ones unattended.

We should grant mercy as often as we can, but it can never come at the expense of the innocent. I'd rather let a murderer who has genuinely changed die in prison than release a supposedly changed murderer who kills again. I'm certainly not volunteering to be that person's neighbor if they're released on good behavior.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We should grant mercy as often as we can, but it can never come at the expense of the innocent.

You're presenting a pretty idealized version of our justice system, i think. A big part of why I support leniency is because of how often our justice system gets it wrong. It's crazy to think that bad luck and low social standing can cost you most of your life. Any punishment meant for violent criminals will inevitably target a substantial number of innocents or nonviolent offenders. It's wishful thinking to believe our justice system is usually "just". We should strive to help the victims feel vindicates as much as possible, but it will inevitably, usually come at the expense of the innocent.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

"Don't kill people"

What? I'm outraged. Think of the poor murderers trying to be good people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don’t think people can ever change, eh?

In this case, you're betting future people's lives on a known murderer changing.

Disclaimer: I'm neither for nor against that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Yeah, I'd rather a known murder have the opportunity to change and potentially be a better person than to only let them rot in a fucked up punitive system.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A chance to change, sure. But it would be a mistake to pretend it's not also a chance to kill again. And it turns out people actually can't change, meaningfully, without remorse for their past deeds— And you can't ever actually know whether they feel that. Mercy feels very good until you realize ten years later how much pain you could have avoided otherwise.

Also, you're presenting a false dichotomy between "Set them loose on the world" versus "Isolation and torture for the rest of their life".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's unacceptable to put innocent people at risk in order to give a convicted violent criminal mercy. It's very easy to say they should be released on good behavior when you live hundreds of miles away. Unless someone is willing to live as that person's roommate or neighbor, I think it's completely hypocritical to chastise others for supporting incarceration.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Somebody's damned no matter what. The victim deserves justice. The survivors deserve peace. The perpetrator deserves a chance to do better. And the rest of us deserve safety.

And these things cannot be reconciled. But I'm not willing to just give upon on any of them. So yes, if you could guarantee that it would give us a decent shot at having all of these things, I would be willing and honoured to live as that person's neighbour or roommate. ..I've repeatedly made decisions before in my life that I think prove this, without even realising it. My life is worth less too if theirs is ruined, and I don't actually innately care about my own safety if I think I can help someone else.

But nobody can currently guarantee that. So, I honestly don't care anymore. Lock them up for good and throw away the key, or kill the survivors too and then kill me too for good measure; I don't care. Just don't make me choose who to damn, because what I want to see is for the victim to be alive, not avenged, and for the criminal to be helped, not brutally crushed— but we can't have that anyway.

And Ffs, don't let a known dangerous criminal have the chance to kill again and pretend it's just mercy or kindness or whatever without a dangerous level of foolishness behind it while condescending at anyone who would want to see a more cautious approach. And don't pretend that ruining one more life for some perverse ideal of "punishment" or revenge is going to fix anything either.

This is a shitty situation, and we've already lost to end up in it. People have already been hurt, and no matter what you choose, more people are probably going to end up being hurt before it's over. Pretending mercy will magically fix everything is almost just as stupid and evil as pretending "punishment" serves any moral purpose other than cruelty.


....I'd want some kind of mercy for the man or woman who murders me. But it's not my place to demand it for someone else's killer, who may well go around being a threat to more and more people.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don’t actually innately care about my own safety if I think I can help someone else.

It's important that I address this if nothing else. If you truly want to be a help for someone else, you need to value your safety. You need to care about yourself. If you get killed helping person A, then what about person B or C who comes afterwards and would've benefited exceptionally from your help? If you want to serve, you need to serve yourself too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yes, I have sorta discovered this the hard way recently, a couple times. It is why I am so angry about the whole thing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Calm down, your making too much sense.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Supporting the current method of incarceration should put you in it. The US should be tried for cruelty and inhumane punishments, per our "justice" system.

It just tells me that said person has no idea how terrible the system is, and that they have zero empathy.

Oh, also: https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Additionally, from the previous link

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Look at the headline. The post. Pull your head out of your ass and delete this shit.

She fucking killed two men. Simple.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Would you bet your life on it?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yes. I do it every day when I drive.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I imagine it's her age. She wasn't even legally an adult, not that that excuses it. Losing all her 20s and most of her 30s basically means if she does get out at exactly 15 years she's probably much screwed her whole life even setting aside the felony on her record. Her life will look nothing like she imagined.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

That's even ignoring what being in prison for that long will do to you mentally. From what I've heard, it's almost a whole other world in there.

I can't imagine getting out after spending 15 years of my life in prison, and being able to keep the same quirks and mannerisms. Everything is just different. It's tough for fully grown adults to transition through, let alone someone who spent the last half of their teens.

That being said, neither of those two dead people will ever get to see a sunrise again. They'll never get to feel the wind on their face, or tell their parents that they love them. For what?

Intentionally murdering innocent people is despicable and soulless. I hope that they give her a lot of therapy and mental help in there. What a tragic end for such young lives.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Her life will look nothing like she imagined.

You could say the same of the two men she murdered, yeah?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It has been statistically proven that white women get easier sentences than men of any race. Her age also probably played in to that.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Reminds me of this news story by the Onion. It was ruled that a young white woman would have to stand trial as a black man.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84phU8of02U