German here, albeit not a (tobacco) smoker. The only places where you can lawfully smoke nowadays are public spaces and specifically designated areas on private properties, which are also physically separated from the non smoking areas.

There are also some Kneipen (roughly equivalent to pubs) which allow smoking anywhere inside, catering to the smoking demographic; although those tend to be frequented by older people who are used to smoking while having a drink. Well there are also the alternative places which definitely have a younger clientele, some allow it anywhere some don't (and have a designated area outside as most other places do).

Ultimately though I believe we have a fair compromise going; and i am always taken aback by people being zealously anti tobacco anywhere, with no regard for individual liberties. Who then throw up their hands when I ask for a ban on personal cars.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago (14 children)

Because smoking anything in public is always intruding on everybody else's right to not have an increased risk of lung cancer. And it smells horrible. I'm fine with smoking in areas where everyone has consented to it, but public spaces like outdoor seating in restaurants aren't that.

[+] [email protected] -33 points 2 days ago (12 children)

You are not owed clean air in public spaces. You are not owed air free of unpleasant smells. Your freedom ends where mine begins.

If you really care about unhealthy things you inhale, why aren't you spending your time ranting against car ownership? Emissions and tire wear produces magnitudes more harmful particles you inhale every day than being in the general vicinity of someone who smokes.

Naturally you could also ask a smoker to stand downwind from you at the bus stop, or even to not light up in the first place. But the smoker has just as much rights to the public space as you do.

If we try to regulate what smells you might encounter outside there are so. many. things I'd want gone as well because they make me feel sick to my stomach. Perfumes, foods, sweaty asses. Burps and farts.

I understand how annoying public smoking can be, I live essentially next to three bars. Not a weekend evening goes by without some fuckers smoking under my window, forcing me to close it.

But I still support their right to do so (see first paragraph).

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks 10 points 2 days ago

Your freedom ends where mine begins.

You say those words but I don't think you really understand them. It's a declaration of negative rights, i.e. others aren't allowed to do something to you. Freedom of speech is such a right in the US as it requires the government to not infringe upon it. This is in contrast to positive rights, e.g. the right to healthcare where somebody has to do something in order to provide the right to others. Read up at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights

What it absolutely doesn't mean is: I am allowed to take away your rights by doing whatever I want. We're talking about smoking, but it could just as easily be pandemic prevention measures (if you were antivax or antimask because muh freedoms, let me know and I won't waste any more of my time), or shooting a gun into the air (others don't have the right to not have bullets randomly raining down on them /s). My freedom to not get shot (i.e. life) doesn't end where your freedom to shoot begins. That's called murder (or manslaughter etc). I'm not saying it's the same magnitude as smoking, just using an example to make the situation clearer.

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