this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2025
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Explanation: The borders of the states of Palestine and Israel were drawn by a UN committee a few years after WW2. It was the great hope that, whatever the issues of the past, rational discussion and neutral arbitration could resolve future problems without war and without bloodshed.
It, uh, satisfied neither party, immediately started a shooting war, and we're still riding this atrocity carousel to this day.
In the UN's defense, at that point, tensions were so high and everything so utterly fucked by the past ~25 years that there was probably no division they could've offered that would've gotten both parties to lay down their arms.
I forget the details, but weren't the Brits fucking it up too before they shoved everything off on the UN?
Yeah, they made promises to the Jewish community about Zionist projects during WW1, and then after the war was over were in an awkward position of "We promised to do this to gain political support, but now we actually have to carry through 😬" and spent the next 25 years with an absolutely directionless policy regarding the Mandate of Palestine, which only contributed to the confusion and lawlessness and the increasing determination of both Zionists and Palestinians that matters could only be resolved by force of arms.
To make things even more awkward, prior to making promises to the Jewish community, the UK had already made promises to the Arab community to provide independence to Arab Palestine in exchange for fighting the Turks.
You shouldn't make promises you can't keep.
Home Alone 2 taught me that.
Awesome detailed post!
I love learning with memes!
Sounds a lot like Brexit.
Yeah, there was actually Israeli terrorism on British government buildings in the region.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziPDl0jNn3Q
Everybody immediately picked a side and started pumping money and weapons into it
In the UN's not-defense, neither side wanted a division in the first place (the Zionist side was very clear they intended to take over all of Palestine no matter what the partition plan said) and both were pretty vocal about it. The Palestinians more so, but still.
I mean, yeah, but "I'm going to pick one of you to be the total winner" is pretty much a non-starter as far as diplomatic solutions go, whereas "Everyone is going to end up disappointed" sometimes works.
Zero state solution. Y'all couldn't behave, now nobody gets it.
If you would like to learn a more accurate representation of this period of history, this chapter which has been made freely available and is thoroughly sourced is something I would recommend reading. An extremely relevant excerpt:
and another, which illuminates what happened before even WW2.
There was already a massive population of Jewish settlers in Palestine by the time the UN came onto the scene. Unless your opinion is that the UN should've performed some ethnic cleansing right after the Holocaust had just occurred, which would have been, putting it mildly, a very bad look, negotiating a settlement between the two sides is all they could've done.
And not only settlers, even if the settler part was a majority of the Jewish population after the WWII. Jerusalem for example had a Jewish majority since at least the XIXth century.
The antiquity of the Jewish presence doesn't justify the current ethnic cleansing, of course.
012345678 and 9 are what you call numbers, they make it easier for people to understand what you mean while also saving you time. WW2 is a character shorter than WWII, but this isn't a big of a deal because it can get confusing if someone writes it as wwii. When it comes to xixth it is also better to write as XIXth, I agree. And while 19th is only a character shorter, in this case it saves people a bunch of mega seconds of thinking an converting this. Now you might just really not like the metric system, but this has nothing to do with that. This has to do with why Roman numerals lost to Arabic ones: 012345678 and 9 are easier to understand.
Numbers you said? It's an interesting idea for sure, but I don't think the world is ready.
Not with that attitude, you gotta move fast and break things x2
from the paragraph before the same article, quoted at length, above
people seem to like to imply that the immigration was illegal or immoral by skipping this part
similarly they forget the violence by the arab community against the jewish community in the period before the larger wars
Iirc the Israelis were happy with this. Right or wrong, their Arab neighbors and Palestine immediately declared war on them while they were celebrating.
The Israelis were actually very unhappy with it. Both the Palestinian and Israeli sides immediately rejected the partition plan.
Israelis because they demanded an ethnostate and Palestinians because they had been forced off their land that was now supposedly going to be called "israel"
The commenter above even mentions a Jewish majority in Jerusalem. I don't know the validity of it, but this is evidence of the fact that British Palestine, before being subjected to colonial invasion, was a multicultural society with different religions living within the territory just fine. The destabilization came from zionists moving in with the explicit, stated purpose of killing Palestinians to make room for more Jewish settlers in order to entrench an ethnic Jewish majority in their occupied territory.
The only reason this is an issue is because zionists openly proclaimed they were not willing to live in community with the native population of the land they were trying to colonize. Nobody opposed jews in Israel until zionists showed up committing genocide.
I'm in agreement with the main thrust of the comment, that Zionist settlers were the primary cause for tensions and the eventual breakout of war in the Mandate, and that the Palestinian cause was the more just of the two, but you're really softballing what is a long history of antisemitism and antisemitic violence in the Levant.
I agree, I'm more just using the comments further up in the thread. I wouldn't have said the thing about Jerusalem had it not been commented above. I was trying to weave that into my comment to form an argument based on what everyone here seemed to be talking around. I know antisemitism is a real thing that doesn't just exist because of zionism. I'm not excusing real antisemitism of jews for immaterial reasons, just to be clear.
We seem to be in agreement for the most part, I was hesitant to even put the Jerusalem comment in there but someone had proclaimed it so confidently in the thread I was like alright since yall seem to think this let me just say this
Oh, good! Yeah, I think we're on the same page.
Hell yeah 😎 hope you have a great weekend, thanks for the honest reply
You're talking 1947? The wiki article differs unless I'm misunderstanding you.
It's been a while since I've read about this, so I genuinely may be misremembering. Apologies if so!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#%3A%7E%3Atext=The+Partition+Plan%2C+a+four%2Cnumbering+twice+the+Jewish+population.
Hmm. I remember reading on it differently. It may have been that whatever account I read emphasized the hardliners. I'll have to look into it later, try to figure out if it was just a misfire in my brain or if there's some basis to what I thought.
I mean the hardliners were definitely opposed, and Ben Gurion had misgivings.