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LG is rolling out a new terms of use and privacy policy agreement. Looking pretty ugly over here with my "Smart TV". What can I do?
(lemmy.dbzer0.com)
It seems to be related to some advertising push from a partner named Alfonso that is gathering information cross-platform anything that appears on your screen and pushing advertising to you during playback.
Hopefully not, but that's what it looks like from early reading.
I have my LGs connected, but logged out.
It's a hassle in that it requires to log in and then back out for mandatory updates of some apps (others will update without a logout, for some reason), but at least it removes the need to agree to a whole bunch of their garbage and add it to an identifying account.
I would keep it offline and use a set-top box, but I have family members that aren't tech savvy and won't want more hassle than pressing the "Netlfix" button on the remote.
I'll say that even they are increasingly annoyed at the constant cookie prompts during live TV watching. Honestly broadcast TV is an absolute hellscape these days.
As a former broadcaster, I just want to point out that actual broadcast TV is the one place you won’t get this. Plug an antenna into the back of your TV and you’ll get the signals from your local station with none of the tracking. It’s a one-way street; the transmitter antenna pumps the signal out from however many miles away and gets nothing back from you. Your local station probably prefers that you watch that way or on a traditional cable box (cable companies usually have to pay the local stations); they don’t really get much from you watching a streaming service. The streaming services like Peacock or Paramount+ let the networks largely bypass the local stations.
No, you absolutely get this.
Maybe because cookie warnings are mandatory here, I am PAINFULLY aware of when the layer of TV malware is pulling info to go along with the TV broadcast. I dismiss advertising cookie warnings in three separate TVs on a daily basis. Once per channel, even. It's incredibly obnoxious.
For the record, the data mining is not happening over the broadcast. It's the TV software that is pulling watch data and then repackaging along with the broadcaster and selling it to advertisers. I know because they are mandated to disclose it, so they make me read about it a dozen times a day.
Is this because you have internet connected TVs when you're watching OTA?
Sometimes the TV, sometimes the settop cable box that also handles broadcast TV (and data mines it). Because, as I said elsewhere, family members are not tech-savvy and want the ability to watch streaming services from their remote without having to switch back and forth to multiple devices depending on what they want to watch.
But to be clear, this is with the TVs logged off from first party services. The data gathering is just baked into the TV's OS.
I think we're in agreement that its baked into the TV, so the solution (in most people's cases) is to not connect the TV directly to the internet so irrespective of what the OS may want to do it wouldn't have the ability to. I understand in your case you have folks in your household that are requiring that direct connection.
Perhaps a strategy in the future for you would be to buy a replacement TV without Smart built in so that there wouldn't even be the option to attach it to the internet.
Yeah, but then what? I mean, at least one of the TVs isn't using the TV OS, it's using the cable box. And guess what? the exact same malware is baked into the cable box's OS.
And of course the same data tracking is baked into the apps themselves, and it's baked into the Apple, Google and Amazon mainstream versions of add-on support. And on the Microsoft and Sony consoles that will do the same service for some streaming tools.
So yeah, if you're tech-savvy you can either block ads upstream or set up a dedicated media device built from the ground up for non-shittified streaming while keeping legacy old-school non-cable broadcast running like it's the 20th century but in the real world that's a protest action, not a functional service.
Perhaps I misunderstood what problem you're trying to solve.
My understanding of the problem you're trying to solve was ads being offered up directly on your TV because they were injected on top of the content you're displaying. This could be in the form of idle time ads where you pause TV and the TV knows this and displays ads over top of your paused content. Or even some of the most insidious ones that overlay ads on top of your content in motion. Even OTA isn't fully immune. ATSC 3.0 has this kind of tracking and response built into it if you allow it by hooking it up to the internet. All of the statements I've made are to remove this type of ad interaction.
With your recent statements I think you're talking about is simply ad tracking in the sense of data collected on your TV is then used by advertisers to serve you ads on your computer, phone, and tablet interactions. Is that right? If so, the only answer there is consumption of TV content completely offline (DVD/Bluray) or OTA TV on a device not connected to the internet.
Oh, no, that's not it. Or not entirely. They definitely do inject ads sometimes, often for proprietary services more than sold products.
The real issue is that they are also doing on-device display analysis for statistic data mining. Effectively snooping on your usage behavior to sell the data for advertising.
I don't even mind that much, but the problem is with the current local regulations that means they have to pop up cookie acceptance prompts. And if you don't accept them they keep trying. Constantly. The prompts are way more intrusive than the ads, but I'm also not inclined to reward their very deliberate dark patterns with a blank check to mine my data. At least in the old days of audience meters they'd pay you some or at least send you a gift basket or something.
Okay so my assumption was correct that you're talking about required unwanted interaction/intrusion on your TV. I'll go back to my point before then of "get a TV that doesn't have Smart features, so it can't be connected to the internet".
And you said:
My response is: Get rid of the cable box, then if its an avenue where they're popping up stuff in the middle of your TV you don't want.
We're an OTA (ATSC 1.0), streaming, and offline (DVD/Bluray usually from the Public Library) content household only with no TVs connected directly to the internet. We get none of what you're describing with pop-ups or interference with watching TV.
And we are back to my original objection: That is a restriction based on activism, not practicality. I can do that for myself, but not for every family member. It's not reasonable to tell someone that they won't be watching this or that show, despite being bundled in our cable, which is in turn bundled with our internet package, because I'm annoyed at privacy pop-ups. It's not reasonably to tell everybody in the house that we're cancelling all of our streaming services, which are routed through the offending hardware, because we're a Bluray-only household now, I've decided.
Both the structure of the service and the implementation are now industry standard. You can go "off the grid" with some effort and enduring some restrictions, but you can't choose to keep the same level of service and not use the mandatory cable box your cable provided installs if you still want to have access to cable channels.
I didn't even have OTA TV last time I was living alone. All I really need is a disc player, a tablet and a computer. Now I'm not living alone I don't get to be fussy on principle because I don't like having to click "opt out of cookies" every time I want to watch the news. It's already a stretch to insist on rejecting all the cookie prompts instead of accepting the intrusion for convenience.
So very happy about how high your horse is in your unabomber media setup, but that's not practical for me or in general.
Not subscribing to cable is unabomber a media setup? Not practical? We're talking about TV, not food or shelter here. Also, we're having a nice conversation. I know you're frustrated with the situation you're in, but if it requires me to be the butt of your insults to continue talking, I'm out.
This isn't activism. Its a cost/benefit analysis. As in "what are you willing to put up with to get the content you want at the time you want it?"
Besides live sports (and even then sometimes) nearly all content available from a cable TV box is obtainable (legally) from somewhere else. The cable box isn't the only place to get TV. If the cable box is providing you with a user experience that is substandard (by your own subjective measures), then you have to ask yourself is it worth the cost? You may be able to get the same content without the aspects you don't like. It may cost more money. You'll have to ask yourself if its worth it to pay that money to avoid the annoyance.
Your family members don't seem to have any problem with the user experience of your current setup. No need for them to change.
I'm not suggesting that. Through this whole conversation I thought we were just trying to solve the problem for you and your family can continue to consume the solution they're okay with.
Why would you have to cancel all your streaming services? I even said that I have a streaming household. What is preventing you from getting a lightweight (as in user experience) streaming device, such as an AppleTV or Nvidia Shield, and also setting up your household streaming accounts on that device in your house attached to the same TV? When you want to watch something without interference or popups on streaming, switch input to your device and watch away without intrusion.
If your family wants to watch through the cable box for their shows, let them. You can likely get the shows you want to watch without going through the cable box.
If you're watching Live TV news, flip over to your OTA tuner and watch the news there without your cable box/smart TV cookie messages. You may notice the video quality is MUCH better in OTA than compressed cable TV anyway.
So you DO have a level of demands on the family for your current solution. Thats fine. Family dynamics are unique to each of us. In your place one strategy I might try is bribery. As in, ask your family if they'd be willing to get a non-smart TV (with an attached streaming box of their collective choice attached) if you were to give each a sum of money ($50, $100, you'd know your family and finances better than I do). I know some younger ones would take that offer in a second to get an extra $50 to spend on Fortnite skins or Taylor Swift albums. Again, this last one is optional to try and get rid of the Smart TV. If your own streaming device on another input of the Smart TV does everything you need, you could skip this step.
Dude, I don't tell the people I live with what to do. You are assuming I'm some patriarchal figure making choices for these people, that's not how it works. They make their own choices with their own money, my family situation isn't a US sitcom scenario.
You're also assuming our local broadcast solutions here are... I presume American? The balance of quality and issues is not the same worldwide, the specific technical implementations aren't the same. My "cable box" is in fact a IPTV solution and it also parses what you're defining as "OTA" directly from an aerial antenna and bakes it into the channel list. And for the record, all different sources there range from 720p to 4K with different levels of compression through some combination of regulation requirements and which broadcast source has decided to update to newer standards when.
The one thing I find interesting in this wall of text is that you seem to be okay with some datamining solutions (Apple or Nvidia) but not others. I'm not sure if this is again a regional thing, but I don't find those alternatives any better. The only meaningful difference is between being entirely offline or not. The most I can provide with a meaningful improvement is selfhosted media, at least without additional setup.
I'm making suggestions of courses of action, not demands. I'm not telling you to control your family with an iron fist, yet somehow thats the idea you're coming away with. If this is the first thing you think to say to me after reading what I wrote, I don't think we're communicating AT ALL. You're not happy with this and neither am I. I don't see any path to anything productive from here. I'll simply say goodbye and I hope you get what you want.
Heh. On that we agree.
Look, not everything someone posts online is a call for help. I noted the frustrations with my TV setup and why I can't or won't effectively mitigate them. It's not because I don't know my options, it's because they don't make sense to my setup at the moment. I don't mind someone suggesting something that helps, but you can safely assume I've tried the obvious stuff.
What else would you use to watch? I used to have my TV offline and watch through a Firestick and airplay, but now the Firestick is worse than the TV apps. I need a new media streamer, but even Roku has enshittified. At this point my only hope is Apple but Apple TV hasn’t been updated in three years
…. Or I might just give up, since Netflix decided my TV is not part of my household so I need a 2fa every time I want to watch.
Still very happy with the shield pro. Old as sin but does everything.
Wow, even has Apple TV+, which the Fire Stick doesn’t. Fairly expensive but the description looks hood
Still has an active hacking community for it, you can do quite a lot with it if you want. Definitely put a non oem loader on it.
You're asking the wrong person. I mostly watch stuff on a Windows tablet. I'm hardly your prototypical media consumer.
But when I do want to watch something on a nice screen it's an LG or Samsung TV where I haven't logged in and turned on as many privacy settings as possible. Mostly I use a local Plex server, and I do have a Windows PC hooked up to a TV as a media center and gaming device.
IMO there isn't a "good experience silver bullet" thing out there. You're navigating like three layers of advertising datamining on all options, including straight-up live broadcast TV. At this point it's about mitigation. I should give a pihole a try and see what that does to the TVs. If I could at least kill the need to manually opt out of live TV cookies every time a family member tries to watch something that'd be a major win.