this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2025
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The main problem still is that for some configuration you still need to use the CLI, the average user does not want to touch that no matter how powerful it is, they want a fully functional GUI that lets you so exactly the same thing but by clicking on buttons. Pair that with drivers that either do not exist or will not work for (some) of your hardware, odd crashed like the Bluetooth stack crapping out and not working anymore until you restart the system, or the system that hangs from hibernation with a black screen. So unless those hurdles are tackled the Linux adoption rate will stay low because the average user wants a system that works, and not one they have to debug.
I've been on and off different distros of Linux since Ubuntu 6 using Pop_OS! as my daily driver for work a few years now, and the same problems I had then are still here today which is a shame honestly.
I'd argue that as Windows continues to abandon its (relatively) sane configuration UI for the newer useless Settings screens, it has reached the point where it really is sometimes easier to just look up what you need to do in Powershell.
This problem is only getting worse over time, so I don't think it's fair to hand the win to Windows.
At this point this is just misinformation... you can easily live and configure everything an "average user" would via GUI in Ubuntu (and most of it's derivatives) or anything running KDE Plasma as a desktop
The reason must of us still CHOOSE to use CLI is because it's powerful but unless you are crazy as I am and running Hyprland as a daily driver, you really do not need CLI...
PS: I fucking love Hyprland! hehehehe
The average user wants their problem gone. And will use whatever helps. Windows users were editing register and editing ini files since Windows was an addon to DOS, and continue doing it. For a literate person there is absolutely nothing more inheritly more intuitive or easy in clicking a checkbox in a fifth submenu than entering a command in a console. Stop perpetuating this weird myth.
This is correct. I work with the "average user" of technology daily as IT support, and honestly, they don't give any shits at all about why it's messed up, or what needs to be done to correct the problem. Box broken, make fix.
The argument that I think the poster is trying to make is that, if a user needs to do any self troubleshooting, which is basically inevitable with technology at the moment, having to use a CLI to get things done is undesirable for the average person. They barely want to bother opening control panel in Windows (or the new "settings" app.... Ugh.) nevermind understand any of it.
Box broken. Make fix.
It's not a weird myth, have you ever worked with average users? Some of them have trouble opening a PDF or don't know how to import a CVS file in Excel. Power users have always been tinkering in their OS that's nothing new, but I'm talking about the average Joe.
It's not a myth though. How do you know what to type in a CLI? You either google it or you read the man pages and god help you if you have to do that because they are not noob accessible documents. What do you do in a GUi? You either google it or you read plain words that are low in technical information on the screen in the menu labeled after what you want to change. GUIs exist for a reason. They brought in the masses for a reason. Pretending that they aren't easier is a demonstrably wrong position.
What is that reason? To obfuscate what is really happening? To make it difficult to support a computer because it takes 20 pages of pictures and a flow chart to explain something when a person could just copy paste a single line? I don't buy that gui's are easier or intuitive, or all that useful every time.
I don't see any difference ~~googling~~ using a decent search engine for one over the other.
And lets not forget that windows is a confusing mess of self help support pages and command line entries for almost everything that goes wrong.
Windows: "PROGRAM_NAME experienced an error: DEEZ_NUTZ"
Yep that's what we're calling a useful error prompt these days. So much better than Linux lol
You can definitely have your opinion. But seeing how so many people have a hard time switching to Linux because of this particular issue, I'd say your position on the subject is quesionable. There are hordes more people on Windows and Mac because they made things easier through accessible software. A large part of that was the GUI.
Because it came with their computer. I have not used a command line at all on two laptops over the past year. It is the exception not the rule these days.
However I have had to use the command line many, many times with Windows. Which is fine, it is MUCH easier to do this "Set-ExecutionPolicy -Scope CurrentUser -ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted" instead of trying to find the gui to deal with it.
That example just proves my point further. No average joe is going to alter the execution policy because they aren't running unsigned powershell scripts. They just want their applications to install and work. They don't want to debug shit. You being fine doing all that is great but other people don't want to mess with it and won't.
Half the time instead of downloading and running an executable that works with nearly all versions of their OS, they have to figure out which os flavor they have since it's not just "Linux" it's Debian, Red Hat, Arch, Kali, Suse, CentOS, Mint, Pop, Ubuntu, etc. and then does it need to be compatible with gnome or kde or something else, then is the configuration even a supported option, oh wait it only supports versions newer than 5 years where anything older will fail, or only till 5 years ago and anything newer will fail. Or the one project that solved the issue stopped developing it 10 years prior and no longer works. Or there just plain isn't a native app so now you have to try and find an alternative way to connect to a service you pay for that has an equivalent feature set and price.
Linux is a fractured mess overall. It is not user friendly. It is not out of the box ready. It's a great option for someone technical that wants to type shit in a terminal. And it's a bad option for anyone that doesn't want to figure out what the magic words are that took the place of their double click.
My example wasn't literal, I have had to do similar things for drivers, sound, USB, search etc. And windows support is just randos telling you what they think might work.
As to your second point, the sane applies as windows is a collection of who knows that the hell software and random hardware. Which hardware? What driver? What vendor?
But I can select nearly any software since Windows 7 and it will still work on windows 10/11. That is far less common on linux. It's more a rule on windows with some exceptions vs linux being the inverse.
Support is stupid for both platforms. I don't even want to touch that mess. Assholes and cunts on both sides and in different ways.
We are doing a review of all of our software to prep for Windows 11 right now. It's not going nearly as well as you think because not all software is consumer-grade.
Not too long ago a bunch of our scientific devices got knocked out by Microsoft fixing an old serial bug. Turns out all the software to run these was built to workaround the bug and quite a few of these items are long since unsupported (or the vendor is gone). Some of these are tens of thousands of dollars, we can't just replace these on a whim.
It may work, but it also may fuck up something else. I run into that a lot with users and windows. How do they fix it or get rid of it? Say hello to our friend regedit!
Again though, those times are more exceptions than rules. I'm not saying Linux hasn't come a long way. A lot of the distros I've worked with are much better than they were a decade ago. They just still aren't the oobe needed to capture general end users.
No they are more the rule. I have to deal with windows every day. I do all of it remotely using Linux. Because Linux just works and I don't have time to deal with windows bullshit. Linux has been stable and reliable, particularly on my laptops where I do nothing but update or upgrade. My desktop has caused me a few issues over the years, been rolling Arch for 6 years or so, but I think that is to be expected.
Windows on the other hand, what a pain in the ass.
But I will agree that end users, in general are unlikely to use Linux over Windows in most cases. Not because Linux isnt ready, but that is what os their computer came with, that is what they are familiar with, and largely it is what they will make apologies for. I mean lets be real: most people don't want a computer at all. I can't blame them. My elderly mother vastly prefers her iPad over a computer no matter what the OS is on the computer.
I donβt know if I agree with entirely. A good UI lets you configure your system without knowing much about it. E.g. if you want to change Ubuntuβs Wi-Fi power save setting you edit a hidden text file (I donβt remember where it is off of the top of my head.) I didnβt even know that this file existed without a helpful AskUbuntu thread and that editing it would greatly speed up my connection. If a UI option existed, I would probably have found it while poking around the network settings screen.
Thatβs what a good UI does: it lets you mess with your system without need for a help forum or leafing through documentation. You can look at where settings are supposed to be, find what youβre looking for, and even explore new settings that you donβt know about.
Oh hey, let's run an experiment then. I'm not a Windows poweruser, but I have an access to it. Let's see, in almost real time, how long it will take me to find how to change Wi-Fi power save setting (I don't know what it is, so very fair this way).
Well, it's a setting, so let's go where settings are. I go to a big menu, find settings in it, assume wifi is in network settings, go there, find wifi setting. Read through all the menus. Nothing. I'm 5 menus deep, and there is "more adapter options button". It asks an admin password, so let's give it to it. Completely different window opens, one that I saw all those years ago in Windows XP. It's called wifi 3 properties. It doesn't render properly on my monitor, the text is blurry, but we're not in "googling shit" territory yet so I power through. (later I found out that it's normal, this menu was constructed when 640x480 was considered high def resolution, and it struggles with modern screens). In this menu there is 12 rows of something, I don't know what QoS Packet Scheduler means or what Client For Windows does. Let's press configure on this one. That menu closes, it asks ominous question, and new one opens. It assures me that the device is working properly, and in advanced tab there is 24 different settings I can change. Settings like "Fat Channel Intollerant" (It is disabled. I don't know if it's good or bad), or Human Presence Detection (it's auto. I assume it's something related to the upcoming robot uprising). There is no help, there is no explanation, I lost count how deep I am, it's more than 10. I'm like half an hour in, probably. I checked all the available settings. I forgot what I'm looking for and had to re-read your comment to remind myself. But at least I don't have to edit a text file, amirite?
Ok, fuck it, let's google. First link.
Well, the answer is 4 years old. My drivers are up to date, so that doesn't help. Let's dig further. Another post on the Microsoft forums.
Damn, I am sure glad I don't have to edit any text files, that would be unintuitive as fuck. Anyway, let's open regedit and create some new DWORDs, shall we? That would not be a problem, regedit is easy and intuitive program that allows very easy way to intuitively do anything.
Anyway, it didn't help. Turns out it stopped helping at some point. Further in the Microsoft forums people offering helping powershell scripts that I need to run in Elevated Powershell to do...something, I assume? It changes some register keys, it's not obvious what.
At this point, I give up. I am easily hour in, I don't know how to change wifi power safe setting in Windows, and I am afraid I will never know. Sure glad I didn't have to edit one symbol in a text file the name of which is easily googlable.
Well the comparison I'd draw is not even needing to worry about that kind of thing on Windows. I went from getting about 200 to 300 Mbps on Windows without doing anything besides connecting to a network to getting 10 to 30 Mbps on Pop!_OS and Linux Mint (Before fixing this issue.)
The strength of Windows is not easy access to more settings (especially after they split the setting between the new settings app and the old control panel), it's not needing to access most of them in the first place. That will vary between users and use cases of course. Some people moved to Linux well before the enshittificafion of Windows got really bad because it suits their needs better.
Next time, try OpenSuse
No terminal required.
Yeah, that sums up my experience quite well.
I dont know wtf you are using, KDE and Gnome dont use the terminal and Bluetooth has never crashed for me. Your shit is all fucked up
IMO, this is a demonstration of the problem. You're blaming the poster/their equipment. Rather than any real solution to the problem the defacto answer is "well, it works for me so what's wrong with you?"
I've never heard this kind of toxicity from other communities (like the apple/Windows crowds). Often you'll get useful answers indicating what to check or pointing to another resource. There's always the chance that the hardware is busted, but let's face it, in the modern era, that's far less likely to happen now than it was even 10 years ago.
Immediately blaming the user for their issue isn't going to solve the problem, nor does it endear any average user to the Linux community or the Linux OS. This attitude is not going to help adoption even if the posters concerns are invalidated by newer/better drivers/software, and all they need to do is update, and/or try again.
This kind of statement actively harms Linux adoption.
Sorry I meant to say I dont even remember how many years ago I saw anyone with Bluetooth problems. Look how you conveniently ignore the fact Kde and Gome dont use the terminal contrary to what you had stated. Your shit is all fucked up.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2025/03/ubuntu-2404-bluetooth-connect-fix Bluetooth issues are still a present problem in Ubuntu 24.04LTS, which appear to be fixed in 24.10. If I want to restart the Bluetooth stack I have to do that in the terminal, on Windows, you go to the services window and restart it from there (not that I've ever had a Bluetooth issue on Windows). Just because you don't experience it does not mean it does not exist, you appear to be one of those toxic it works on my machine people.
There is your problem. I know I am being snarky but i have had several discussions over the last few days about how Ubuntu has always been a problem for me since it came out. It is kind of nice to see another example.
As an aside: On my old windows laptop, the wireless was crippled to half speed/ half features because it was not the "pro" wireless version. Turns out that in Linux is ran flawlessly and fast because it wasn't being crippled artificially by the drivers. I have seen a lot of that over the years, including Bluetooth not working correctly in windows. There is a wide variety of hardware, and a wide variety of support of that hardware in both windows and linux communities.
It's a brand new (one year old now) Thinkpad X1 Carbon, with a clean installed Pop_OS! system, so I don't know why it does that, but it has done it at least ten times since I got it. Also after installing VirtualBox I've been have kernel panics occasionally when shutting down the system Β―\(γ)/Β―
There are also just a lot of personalization options that just aren't there, particularly for power-lite users, because Linix power users use the terminal for everything.
Like, heaven forbid you want a full featured, advanced file manager or something, but aren't interested in learning bash scripting...
Which means you are shit out of luck in windows, but comes by default in Plasma. Go figure.
Windows File Manager is superior to any linux file manager I've tried. I have tried switching to Linux many times and it's really great, except the damn file managers, which always ends with me switching back to Windows. I just ended my last run with Linux Mint as my daily driver for 3 months. I really enjoyed it and had it configured just the way I wanted. But the file manager(s) just isn't mature enough, so I caved in, again, and moved back to Windows. Oh well, maybe next time will be the one.
You can't be serious? People buy other file managers because the Windows one sucks so bad. I would know, I purchase our software.
You have to be joking right? Windows file manager is one of the worst.
Lets see: Windows 11 finally got tabs. About time after we have had them for I don't even remember how long.
Here is one that drive me absolutely up the wall with windows: why can I not see the amount of free space on the drive I am working on?
It is in the right corner in my file manager. Click again and it will tell me the free space of all the partitions. Click again and I can open filelight. It is displayed in gigs AND in a graphical at a glance line.
I put up with windows file manager, but it is quite possibly the worst one I can think of. What feature are you missing?
Edit: fixed layout for clarity and readability.
I guess we have very different work flows. All the things you mention are things I have no use for and I absolutely despise split view. :)
What I miss the most is a quick overview of all my drives and mounted network drives, showing disk size and usage. I also miss to be able to right-click drag and drop and then choose if I want to copy or move. Network management! Being able add a network drive with a few clicks and mount it permanently if needed.
A quick overview of all the drives and mounted drives? That is in the left panel for me, with device sizes. Right click to copy or move? We have that too.
Mount a drive? That one is interesting because of the underlying os. You can open a local network share, right click and add it to the left panel. It will then be available anytime you want to work with it. You can also add foreign shares, such as SFTP which I do not think windows can do.
This one though: showing disk size and usage which you CAN do in Dolphin, I do not think is part of windows natively. What settings do you do to show those?
For showing disk size+usage, you can just go to the βMy Computerβ tab. It even shows size and usage for networked drives that support it. The rest of your criticisms are pretty valid though.
I forgot that I would have to look in the columns for disk space, or that I would have to click on it. In dolphin the disk space is shown on the left panel without needing to click on anything. That is why I was confused.
Not Right click to copy or move. Right-click-drag-and-drop. In windows, when you left-click on a file and drag-and-drop, the default action applys, which is move if it's to the same drive. Or copy if it's to a different drive. Right-click-drag-and-drop gives you the option to copy, move or extract to the drop location.
Will it be available after a reboot? Because I haven't been able to do that without adding it to fstab or using extra software, like gigolo.
Showing disk size and usage is very native in windows. Can you get something simular with Dolphin?
Yes it will be there after a reboot.
Ah I forgot about that disk size which you have to click to find (which is no longer showing on home in my windows 11 by the way).
I thought you meant can you see disk size by doing... Nothing? It is always in my panel on the left.
Are you truly saying personalization is not there on linux but Windows has it? LoL
I'm pretty sure they're saying that customization, while present in Linux, is not accessible to most because of a lack of GUI options to configure a nontrivial number of the customization settings.
As a long-time Linux user who had to dive into the Windows world after taking an admin job, this is such a bizarre thing to hear. So many how-to articles that I found to make a change to user-level Windows settings start with opening the Registry Editor. Technically, that's a GUI program, but still a major challenge for the average user. On the admin side, the documentation and how-to articles are dominated by PowerShell scripts, because Microsoft has embraced the command line.
@MystikIncarnate @_carmin try different DE like TDE, XFCE, KDE
KDE can configure more things than there are atoms in this world. And All other DE are way more advanced than windows all through the GUI. So their point remains garbage