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Ukraine’s Top Military Leadership: We Are Starting to Win, Russia Is Starting to Lose
(www.kyivpost.com)
this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2025
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Equipment, too. The US DoD was looking at a new tank, but axed it. They don't exactly give out their reasons why, but a good guess is they saw what drones were doing in Ukraine and decided the design would have been obsolete before the first one came off the assembly line.
They are coffins on tracks now. The tank, the warship, the aircraft carrier. All exceptionally vulnerable to $10k drones and thus: all obsolete. Until some sort of anti-drone minigun on AI enters service, the tank sits, the warship barely floats, and the aircraft carrier is 500km away.
But: attaching some sort of infrared and visible spectrum 360 camera to a processing unit isn't beyond the pale already. It won't be long until these units are all back in action. Stealth drones already? Hypersonic missiles? Good old fashioned AT launchers? Reactive armour? Spaced hulls? Laser interception? Gauss canons?
We're in an accelerated arms race right now indeed
Don't agree with the aircraft carrier bit. The point of aircraft carriers has always been that they can sit way the hell back, because the aircraft are projecting all the firepower. The F-35 and Super Hornet for example have a combat radius of well over 1000km.
They have always been vulnerable in the sense that it doesn't take much to destroy them, a few torpedoes or ASMs suffice. The hard part is getting those weapons on target. That means either getting close enough in a very hostile electronic warfare and anti-air environment, or acquiring a weapons grade lock on a moving target from hundreds of kilometers away.
Both are very hard problems to solve, and $10k drones do nothing towards solving that. The threat to worry about here is not drones, but hard to intercept hypersonic missiles that are self guiding through passive electro-optical sensors that allow them to intelligently pick out an aircraft carrier to home in on.
We've had these for decades now. They're called CIWS, and they're capable of taking missiles out of the sky and turning inflatable dinghies into flotsam. They're mounted on every aircraft carrier in the world - both US and otherwise - and we've fielded trailer mounted variants for at least 20 years. They were using them in Iraq to blow mortar rounds out of the air.
We have automated systems on vehicles capable of identifying a tank round traveling 1,700 meters per second via radar, figure out whether it's going to hit or miss the vehicle, and fire an explosive at it to neutralize it if it is, all within a span of about 300 milliseconds.
The biggest issues with drones are largely man portable solutions and things that don't send thousands of rounds of lead into the sky to rain down on a population center. Drones are small enough to fly indoors and cheap enough to be deployed in swarms. Figuring out how to counter those aspects is probably where the most energy is going to be spent.
Did not save the Moskva. Then again, it helps if you keep things in working order....
That, and drones are both small and therefore harder to detect - especially flying close to sea level - and they can be remote controlled, which allows them to move erratically, making them much harder targets to hit. There's definitely a reason that countries are looking into things like lasers and blasts of air to knock them out of the sky instead of just filling the area with a lot of bullets.
Drones also include the bomb seadoo things, its not just flying drones. I think sea skimming has also been a thing for 100 or so years for anti-shipping, the real change is the drastic reduction of cost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMBT
Six anti-drone radars, the weapon station gun is 30mm so not as beefy as a Gepard/Skynex but those are meant to take out more than drones. And, yes, AI-enabled targeting.
30mm is probably unsuited, you don't need that calibre vs a drone, you need agility, and higher RoF.
The detection abilities all look undercooked for me too, some sort of mesh radar, infrared, and visible spectrum cameras combined with high speed classification network with targeting abilities, and realtime information about current friendly movements is still necessary to identify and confidently neutralise enemy drones. To counter jamming some sort of fibreoptic umbilical system and/or lifi would be necessary too.
And I know its being worked on, but people are being pretty hush hush about that. The challenge then being productionising these systems, it's all very well on a test bed, but the front line has some rather extreme conditions for hardware, and software, and the manufacturing of these integrated systems is challenging too. You'll need loads of them to really be effective. Mobile big dog type platforms would also be fabulous to run alongside a tank brigade
Skynex/Gepard are 35mm and can take down drones just fine, I suppose the 30mm also uses precision airburst. If you don't disperse the drones it might happen that their fire control takes down five with three rounds. What I'm more worried about is number of rounds. Whether they need that calibre to do airburst properly or they keep it large so it can double as a third ground gun I don't know.
I wonder how fast they can produce and use those new laser weapons, they should rip most drones a new one. Currently, modern war looks a like a total cluster fuck for everyone involved, tiny accurate death from above at any time... sheesh... With laser cover, currently only available on tracks/wheels and in short supply, I think it would already look very different. I have no real clue what's about to happen though, this war kicked off a crazy weird arms race.
The power requirements for lasers that can damage drones is pretty extreme. Ye cannae change the laws of physics captain! And so, deployments to mobile platforms likely to be probably more suited to a dedicated support type role IMO. Mounted to AFVs perhaps. LFVs anyone?
Hardkill APS seems to be less relevent these days for tanks aswell, if it even triggers on a drone there's no help for the next 10 that show up.
Tanks will probably never become totally irrelevant but it will be hard to justify their price when drone swarms seem to be the future.
You'd expect them to closely analyze the attacks and pour a few hundred billion into countermeasures though. Not exactly the same position that Russia is in.
The US military (and others) are pouring R&D money into anti-drone lasers. It's the only way for the cost element of anti-drone defenses to make any sense. When that tech is mature and small enough in sure it will eventually be mounted on tanks .