Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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This space was created as a space to deal with men issues through the lens of feminism. While you claim that feminism is "as in “let’s figure out where women are disadvantaged and fix it” - it is a sociological framework that explains social hierarchy and power structures, that grew over long period of time and gave power to a specific group of people, while disenfranchising other groups to different degrees. This framework can be used to understand problems quite a lot people face today (men and women) but is obviously not a theory of everything. It does not deal with all issues men and women encounter in a modern world. You are free to create your own space for men issues to analyse them from a different point of view. But in my experience such places often deteriorate into basic misogyny.
How come?
I doubt that this is the conses opinion on this sub - you will have to present some evidence for this claim.
Who exactly is stopping men from being involved in resolving their issues? Feminists? I don't see how - you will have to elaborate on this one.
We seem to have a very different understand and view on feminism and what it's about.
The optics of feminism are women-focused, it is about women first and foremost and therefore may not be applied to (or rather imposed on?) men unconditionally.
One of the outcomes of patriarchy is that men are more commonly promoted to higher positions, especially in the top levels, yes. But the other side of this is that men are expected to be providers, to carry the main financial burden, to pay for everything, leaving less to themselves. Feminism mostly covers only one side of this - income inequality - but barely tackles the societal issues that lead to the inequality in expenditures and financial expectations put on men. As such, men are squeezed between the rock and a hard place, and what most ultimately chooses in building a career, even if it doesn't align with their best personal interest. As a result, even if we eliminate all the glass ceilings that women may face, men will still take higher positions on average because that's what their conditions dictate. We need to address mens' input and engage with it if we want to have all elements that would allow us to resolve it. And feminism doesn't do that.
Men can and should absolutely support feminists while also combating their own discrimination - here we can agree. But naming a place "Men's Liberation" comes with the expectation that it's about the males' issues through the males' optics, or otherwise it is as liberating as a hostile army.