296
Trump to lift pause on 2,000-pound bomb supply to Israel, Walla News reports
(denvergazette.com)
this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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Non American here. Both your parties are genocide and apartheid supporters. Simple as that.
Yea, one of the two is more than the other. But you got to come to terms with the fact that your country's bipartisan effect in the region is kinda evil.
Lol, down vote all you like. I'm just telling the truth.
Everyone here agrees with you, dawg... We just understand our country's political system enough to know which was the correct choice to mitigate that evil.
People made the wrong choice.
Your truth isn't THE truth buddy
Disprove me. Point me official policies enacted by one of the two US parties that materially opposed Israeli Apartheid and the genocide of Palestinians since Oslo. To make sure I don't move the goalposts by claiming you cherry pick occasional bleeps, make a strong argument by showing me a consistent trend.
EDIT: added "since Oslo" because we need some start time.
EDIT2: Here's what ChatGPT has to say about this. It is obviously not the arbiter of truth, but I guess this is common enough knowledge that it has made to the training of LLMs. Not a proof, but a baseline to beat:
Ugh. Fuck chat gpt. It’s hallucinating and not a legitimate source.
That being said the uniparty supports capitalism, imperialism, and the unsinkable aircraft carrier known as Israel.
Not even.
You do realize the United States didn't start that war. They've done a lot to stabilize the region and they have tried to solve the issue both before and after the war.
You try and negotiate a deal between Israel and Palestine it's not an easy task.
I never said they started the war. I said they support genocide and apartheid (and I should have added occupation). Which they do. You can argue all you like whether their reasons for doing it are good or bad, but the simple fact of the matter is that in a bipartisan way they support Apartheid Israel and its policies for genocide and occupation. That's just factual.
I was taking aim at the evil influence to the region. The Americans and Israeli didn't start the war. They have been working to build ties and alliances to promote regional stability. There are Iranian proxy groups that are destabilizing the region, these people are to blame for the war and destabilizing the region. You cannot support these groups.
I understand people get hurt in war but negotiations with these groups is going terribly. They have insane demands and are completely delusional. You would never accept a terrorist group doing an attack on your country without repercussions.
Malaka, I'm Greek. Better ask what I'd do if my country was occupied, like the Israelis occupy Palestine. My ancestors did worse to the Ottomans after 400 years of occupation and subjugation than what Hamas did to the Israelis after 80.
We understand what occupation means and what it does to a people. Same reason why the Irish support the Palestinians. And we understand that the "stability" you talk of reeks of Nakba, Apartheid, Occupation and Genocide.
Edit: toned down the chest thumping
Ok what would you do if your country was occupied like Palestine? Would you continue to fight Isreal and risk starting another war knowing full well every single war has been lost catastrophically?
This is not a theoretical question for a Greek person. Here is what we would do:
What would you do if your country was occupied?
But even that ultimately is besides the point, because we are looking at the whole thing from the outside. For a more sober look, see my responses to LengAways below.
You didn't answer the question. Those events do not replicate the situation in Palestine. The situation in Palestine is so lopsided that war is just not a realistic option.
If my country was occupied I would fight initially and for years after no matter how lopsided however if we got slaughtered multiple wars in a row i'd give up on violent resistance. If I was born in a country occupied for decades with a massive power difference like say china I would just live my life in whatever conditions existed. Things would be hard enough without getting bombed and sieged.
The ottoman occupation of Greece lasted 400 years. Similar numbers for the Bulgarians, the Serbs, etc.The Irish fought for 800. The Poles for 120 years.
If you come from a part of the world that has this history you understand what it means to not give up.
You still dont answer the question. Why is this so hard for you to answer when you said I could ask this exact question? You can bring up history from a different part of the world but like I said before it's not the same situation.
The path to their own nation doesn't come through attacks on surrounding countries. Do you think one day they are just going to suddenly win a war and gain their freedom?
You're free to not like my answer. And I reject your framing of "attacks on surrounding countries". Palestine (West Bank and Gaza) is occupied. Entry and exit are controlled by Israel. Citizens living in those areas are required to register with Israeli authorities to have papers. Their freedoms are curtailed by Israeli military law. Their lives are at the mercy of the Israeli military, and Israeli paramilitaries ("settlers"). They are an occupied people, not some free country attacking their neighbour.
My answer is that I refuse to criticize the Palestinians' right to resist by any reasonable means they choose to the occupation and subjugation of their homeland and their people, the right to resist apartheid and genocide. They have every right to stay as "sumud" as they want. They are fighting for their freedom, and they have the right to violently resist occupation. That is a legal right(*), not to say also a moral patriotic imperative. Obviously, I draw a line at targeting civilians, of course, so Hamas' atrocities against civilians in October 2023 were unambiguously inexcusable and criminal -- but not so any legitimate violence they undertook against IDF personnel.
Your question whether there is a chance that they will win a war to gain their freedom is therefore besides the point. But if I were to take it at face value, then first of all, well, yes, stranger things have happened. Ragtag bands of Greek revolutionaries, at the brink of defeat at the hands of Ibrahim Pasha saw their fortunes change due to a fortuitous change in international politics. A world war broke out and Britain could not maintain its grip on Ireland. But regardless, there are two ways of taking the question: tactically or morally. You can ask the tactical question: is war the best way to achieve Palestinian statehood. You can ask the moral question: is the toll of war worth the suffering. Both, but especially the latter, are not up to me or to you to answer, but for the Palestinians to decide. But even purely tactically, what the Palestinian fight can do is make it perennially costly for Israel to maintain the Occupation and the Apartheid. This makes it Israel's and its allies job to find and propose a palatable political solution. They hold the power, they hold the cards, they hold the initiative, they created this mess, they must face the music and fix it. The Palestinians cannot be expected to just lay down and die or to go into exile just because Israelis want them to. So, are there things that can and should be done to promote peace? Of course, and as a western citizen I do what I can to push my government to act to help the situation. Peace is possible, if it comes with justice. No justice? Don't expect peace. Simple as.
But at no point will I point a finger at Palestinians and deny them the right to fight for freedom, a right that my ancestors bought with with their blood.
(*) United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2625 (XXV), 1970
By calling it "starting a war" (which is a lie) and insisting that it has never gone well, you are implying that they should lie down and let Israel genocide them. Because that's how that goes.
Can you explain how its not "starting a war". It seems like it was intentional to start a war.
So long as Israel is occupying(*) Gaza and the West Bank, war has never stopped. There are truces, but there is no peace. So war did not "start" on Oct 7 2023. It just continued in a new phase. It also didn't "end" last week. We have a ceasefire, not peace.
See my other comment: Palestine (West Bank and Gaza) is occupied. Entry and exit are controlled by Israel. Citizens living in those areas are required to register with Israeli authorities to have papers. Their freedoms are curtailed by Israeli military law. Their lives are at the mercy of the Israeli military, and Israeli paramilitaries (“settlers”). They are an occupied people, not some free country attacking their neighbour.
I'm curious what you suggest the US should do to rectify your criticisms? Do you advocate for the US to take a completely hands-off approach, withdrawing all presence and funding in the area?
The US should listen to Daniel Levy, former negotiator for Israel under Ehud Barak. Look for good interviews and talks online.
That's, not really what I asked. You have an opportunity here to argue publicly for a position you believe in passionately, and are criticizing others for not holding... and you pass it off to me?
Why bother to preach if you're not willing to teach? Or at least provide a link or two.
Good point.
Here is who Daniel Levy is:
Here are some links:
My rationale for focusing on Levy is that this is a person who has first-hand experience with Israeli politics, with the Oslo process, engages with the anti-apartheid Palestinian, Israeli and Western left, and is knowledgeable of US, British and Jewish diaspora politics. His vision for resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is focused in a dignified, equitable peace through a two-state solution, grounded in international law and mutual respect for the rights of all individuals involved.
In a world where reason, compassion and universal human rights were the rule, Daniel's approach would be the absolute minimum baseline for any discussion about a resolution. There is objectively nothing unreasonable or radical in his vision. But in this timeline? He's labelled an unreasonable far-left extremist, and only consistently platformed by the likes of DemocracyNow and Novara.
So, there. He also happens to have a velvety radio voice, so, enjoy :)
Thank you. I will look over these as time permits!
You do realize that we supplied their weapons?!
I do not think blame for the wars sits with the person who sold the weapons. There are plenty of people selling bombs. Sell Israel no bombs and they go somewhere else, restrict weapons sales and you keep them as an ally but limit their capability.
Fucking cope.
How could it be any other way?