cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315
this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2024
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As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn't change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever's coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the "wrong" instance is the worst possible greeting.
I have no problems with tankies expressing there opinions. The problem is when someone points out they are wrong they get mad and if the mods are tankie they ban you. If not they just get mad and start name calling.
In a nutshell I think they should be allowed as long as they follow the rules. Same for everyone else.
Yeah, from my pov, it's not about silencing their opinions as much as it is wanting to avoid their authority because they abuse it to push their opinions.
Same reason I ultimately left Reddit. Admins were making choices I didn't like and forcing them on their users. The new site and official app both suck, but I had the option of using other apps or the old site. Even the old site isn't a great experience on mobile vs some 3rd party apps, but then they killed off the apps in a way that looked like they weren't being honest about (though in hindsight it was more about wanting to price access for AI training than specifically wanting to kill the 3rd party apps imo).
Lemmy isn't immune from any of that, but the impact isn't as high because federation gives options. And corruption turns into more of a game of whack a mole instead of "throw lots of money at the one entity controlling it" like Reddit and Twitter.
Plenty of us tried that. We weren't the ones that turned it into a political Battlefield. I didn't start out blocking their communities and servers. I'm a pragmatist. Actually largely against people who are blindly ideological regardless of the ideology. Even if I tend to personally identify with the anarchist Spectrum.
Hell lemmygrad and hexbear weren't banned because of their politics. They were banned because of their behavior. Anyone who behaved like so many of them did should have been banned regardless of politics. Lemmy.world was de-federated by certain servers for far far less.
And if you want to exist in a bubble. Then by all means please do. But don't admonish other people for not doing so. Ignoring politics and being ignorant of politics is in large part how so many of the problems we have today were created. People left alone at the levers of power who should never have had any business. All because people were content and ignorant.
Just wanted to chime in that I agree with this, and frankly that's why I value keeping an eye on what the narrative that both sides have been operating by. I don't see how any of the problems we face are served by selective ignorance.
To say they weren't banned for their politics but instead their behavior is a bit misleading in terms the sequence of events. The .world defederation was preemptive as near as I can tell- Hexbear turned on federation but before they federated with anyone, .world had already defederated. The citations in the .world defed thread were all pre-federation threads of people being hyped to connect to more people. Even if people were saying they wanted to 'bully libs', that just reads to me like people talking shit because as far as I can tell the hexbears never made a single post anywhere on .world.
The thread in question cited several threads, it's a bit dramatic in places, but also explicitly instructing people not to break rules- instructed not to even register accounts for trolling. Standard things to be aware of in posting on a federated instance even if they are being dramatic or saying they're propagandists- there's plenty of normal people there from what I've observed this last year. If the points they outlined in that post are to be their party line then at least they're just stating it right there so you know what their angle is going to be.
I feel like the case that it was not political censorship would be stronger if the whole thing had been less vibes based from the start.
I made the mistake of not knowing I was on an .ml community and disagreed with a post using, y'know, facts, and was downvoted to shit because my reply didn't jive with the room's echo chamber. I don't know what you mean by "leave(ing) them alone" when their brand of hate and bullshittery bleeds into the "All" feed. We're supposed to welcome that? Paradox of tolerance and all that. If someone joins one of those instances I kinda find it hard to believe that they wouldn't check out and stick with what they're attracted to in the first place.
So if there was a instance called "obviously a bunch of Nazis" and we're all openly Nazis. You would be fine with that? Or am I missing the point?
My instance has communities dedicated to this shit.
Some of your more vocal voices in this crusade against .ml tend to be pretty active in drone kill footage communities.
Having someone who actively supports Israeli operations in Gaza browbeat others about comments on Uyghurs is just a context to get used to.
It gets pretty easy to ignore once you see a full cycle of it.
The zionists here, too? I used reddit for over a decade and left because of how awful zionists barrage reddit into a propogandist cesspit. And yes screw anyone who makes lemmy a battleground like reddit
Lemmy is generally leaning pro-Palestine, but it varies.
Lemmy.world has the most Zionists on Lemmy, as well as the most tolerance for Zionism and erasure of the US' involvement in the genocide.
Shit, I clearly joined the wrong fediverse. I'd rather be called a tankie then be in the same boat as zionists. Tho tbh I search all of the fedverse and pro israeli genocidal content isn't too prevalent while reddit is genuinely taken over by zionists and American/European evangelicals
I have been directly censored and banned on a large and active Lemmy.world community for explaining why the US is involved with the Palestinian genocide. I can't paste the modlog here because doing so breaks Lemmy.world's rules.
In case you check my modlog, here is the context for the [email protected] ban. The moderator banned me for calling out their regurgitation of white supremacist "anti-DEI" nonsense about non-white people being included in God of War. They since deleted their account and locked the sub, now its just bot posts for the most part.
This is what the tankies do, would you rather have them just run roughshod all over Lemmy spreading hostile country authoritarian propaganda?
Not about changing Tankie opinions, they're too far gone, this is about pushing back on the spread of authoritarian BS.
"Don't tell the new comers to town about the Nazis at the Nazi bar, let them figure it out for themselves so they have a negative experience and leave"
If they're (admins and mods) going to allow a toxic culture on their instance, then it doesn't matter their size. Toxic Tankies is not a good look at all.
The worst possible greeting, is seeing Tankie shit takes with paragraphs of "Russia/China did nothing wrong" and everyone going "We let them post their stuff because we don't want to hurt their fefes"
Don't you know that defending against authoritarians is the real authoritarianism? Just look at how Ukraine is visiously provoking russia to invade by checks notes defending themselves during the invasion
I'll bash them too when I see them doing so. So long, it's mostly them (or really, everyone leftier than liberals bunched along with actual tankies) that are under fire.
Your war made too much collateral damage, that's what I'm saying. Newbies come to .ml and other popular instances, and are attacked on the spot for being presumably almost Nazis. Others come and see this mess.
You are so concerned about someone making China/Russia look better that you are ready to overlook everything else.
Of course, genocide is such a small thing compared to people feeling uncomfortable.
Well said, I completely agree.
lol look at the downvotes on this one.. these tankies coordinate themselves against opinions that they don't like. it's ridiculously obvious.
Right. Everyone disagreeing with you is just an "other" that doesn't belong to your group that should be rightfully ignored because they are lesser than you.
Oh happy day the liberals sure are superior to the rest of us and we would all know our place to respect that.
Just so you know I down voted you too. And hey look. No tankie or .ml
.ml participate in bad faith in conversations of course there are some normal downvotes but that technique has been used in the past. Since I have been tagging the worst offenders I have found their behaviour in terms of commenting/posting to be dogmatic. They rarely participate in non political themes and if they do some of them still spread their ideology. I don't want explain too much... I understand that you disagree with me but since I have been investigating on my own I have been really surprised at how bad the problem was.
And what?
Holy crap that's the least "human I wish to spend any time with" ever response. This is what you are spending your time on? Oh my God.
I'm sorry I came across in the wrong manner.
I didn't intend for my response to sound passive aggressive or that your opinion did not matter (English is not my first language after all).
To clarify my previous position, I just want to say that I don't disregard .ml opinions based on the origin of their instance. I was just trying to point out that a lot of problematic behaviour comes from some individuals on .ml.
That being said I just want Lemmy to succeed in general and when I see their behaviour, it pains me because I know the damage it does to lemmy as a whole. I noticed I take toxicity waaaaay more personally here rather than on reddit because It's just corporate shit anyway.
You are right though I could be spending my time doing better things rather than waisting it calling out pro-genocide/genocide deniers/authoritarians who paint themselves as "socialists/communists”
In their defence posts like these, especially in this community, serves no other purpose rather than to stir things up and get a reaction.
Yeah this post was a shit stirrer for people to get an easy hit of emotional payoff.
I also want this place to succeed but people spending every day lamenting the way that other people are living doesn't make this place feel inviting. And there will always be idiots and people being bad about something or another.
I hope you find yourself doing stuff you enjoy or makes the world better instead of just hunting down all the ways for it to make you feel worse.