this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

Am i seeing this right, that you can buy raw milk in grocery stores? What the fuck?

Raw milk gets bad way to fast in order to sell it in a grocery store.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Imagine deliberately paying a premium for food that can make you seriously ill.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago

Imagine deliberately paying a premium for food that can make you seriously ill.

This applies to maybe 80% of what's in a grocery store.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I believe it has to be bought at the farm but they still do commercial packaging

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago

That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought, that so many people buy raw milk, that its profitable to do commercial packaging.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

When kept below about 3C raw milk can last 7-10 days. The problem mainly is in the handling - the longer it's shipped and more it's handled the higher the likelihood it ends up above safe temperatures, reducing that time significantly. And we've all seen how grocery stores handle their perishables... LOL.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Filthy farming practices don't help.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Filthy farming practices don’t help.

No they don't. And that applies universally.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Considering farms are pretty much exclusively in rural areas and how rural areas generally lean politically, it's a testament to the human immune system that food poisoning deaths aren't more widespread. Or maybe a testament to the usefulness of food production regulations. Guessing we'll find out which one by 2030, assuming it will be allowed to be reported on.

Or maybe new conspiracy theories will pop up over the next few years, oddly aligning with current health and safety science.

EVEN THOUGH VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, TURNS OUT THEY'VE BEEN PREVENTING LIBERAL DISEASES THAT CAUSE BABIES TO COUGH THEMSELVES TO DEATH THIS WHOLE TIME!

NOT BRINGING MILK TO JUST UNDER A BOIL MIGHT MAKE IT SAFER TO CONSUME BUT IS HURTING THE OIL COMPANIES THAT GIVE US THE FREEDOM TO TRAVEL (WHEN YOU HAVE AN APPROVED REASON TO TRAVEL)!

SOLAR PANELS STEAL ENERGY FROM THE SUN, REDUCING ITS EXPECTED LIFETIME, BUT BRAND NEW TRUMP PANELS GENERATE FREE ELECTRICITY FROM THE VACUUM WHEN EXPOSED TO DIRECT LIGHT!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Considering farms are pretty much exclusively in rural areas and how rural areas generally lean politically, it’s a testament to the human immune system that food poisoning deaths aren’t more widespread

It may be helpful to read up on food-borne illnesses and their vectors. I say this because what I interpret from your comment is that rural areas are "dirty" and that right-leaning areas are somehow "dirtier" by virtue of being lax in food safety.

Strictly speaking this isn't the way it works and it's important to understand how contamination occurs. Almost all pathogens end up in food in two ways: field hands with inadequate sanitation and contamination through handling, processing, and packaging. The vast majority of these cases occur when food supply chains are long and complex and when safety is compromised in the name of profit. For example cutting corners in poultry handling or paying farm workers by the unit rather than by time, such that they are strongly incentivized to urinate or defecate in the field.

Food production regulations are actually quite stringent further along the supply chain (See the Food Safety Modernization Act and Produce Safety Rule) but there are gaps (this is an ag joke) on the production side, particularly in enforcement.

Your best bet is to seek to shorten the supply chain for the food you buy. Avoid processed foods and buy as close to the source as you can. Favoring organically-grown produce direct from a farmer just about guarantees that your food is safe. For example, organic regulations through the National Organic Program require a long period of time between use of manure and harvesting to ensure pathogens break down. It's a common misconception that poop is used directly on growing crops.

Some reading:

USDA food borne illness guide: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/foodborne-illness-and-disease FSMA Final Rule on Produce Safety: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-modernization-act-fsma/fsma-final-rule-produce-safety

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

It may be helpful to read up on food-borne illnesses and their vectors. I say this because what I interpret from your comment is that rural areas are "dirty" and that right-leaning areas are somehow "dirtier" by virtue of being lax in food safety.

Yeah, I meant the association between right-leaning and "probably thinks safety regulations are a government overreach and waste of time that can be ignored if you can get away with it". And non-existent rights for immigrant workers, including unhygienic living conditions imposed on them.

And an assumption that choices between profit or safety will be more likely to err on the side of profit than safety if they believe they can get away with it, with the "fuck you, I got mine" mindset seeming to be stronger on the right.

Thanks for the comment and info though. My own comment wasn't really fair or useful.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

It's a good point. And certainly a lot are resistant to any oversight or regulation. But I find right-leaning people are actually very quick to obey and are generally pretty compliant, for all the bluster. They are fearful people.

But also there is a strong incentive to ensure food you grow is not going to kill your customers or get you sued. But this only really works when it's you as an individual. As soon as you are a corporation...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Doesn't it last 5-7 days? In Europe it is long enough.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

People like my boomer mother will buy a gallon of milk and expect it to be good for 2+weeks.

She is part of the reason I do a small shopping every couple days and only buy what I need for the foreseeable future. An entire generation of Americans that are used to everything being so pumped with preservatives that we can eat a Twinkie that rolled under the couch last presidential election.

Yet, we have to scrub eggs of their natural coating at the farm, requiring them to be refrigerated.

Food regulation in the US hasn't moved very far from the 60s.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

All i can say is, that at "normal" refrigirator temperatures milk will be good for 3-4 days. Cant say anything for temperatures below that

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Looked at milk I have.

Expiration period: 6 days.

Storage temperature (4±2) °C

Did you mean 3-4 days since purchase? Here it's counted from production date.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

I mean 3-4 days since production. In this case it might be higher, since Theres no exposure to the surrounding air.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Is it like a new thing? I never heard anyone making a fuss about raw milk other than like the Amish for the quarter of a century I've been around.

It seems to be based around the people who just look for problems to have, like okay when are people gonna start drinking bottled puddle water because "its got natural minerals and bacteria" or some nonsense.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Raw water was a thing. Not sure if it's still a trend but it definately happened.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Isn't that just like Fiji water type brands where they just "fill the bottles with natural spring water" when it's just coming from some basin?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

Here's the link to the Cleveland Clinic article about the raw water trend: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water