this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2024
25 points (100.0% liked)

Sustainable Tech

799 readers
1 users here now

Sabaidee, Welcome!

This is a community for promoting sustainability in tech and computing. This includes: understanding the impact that our tech/computing choices have on the environment; purchasing or re-using devices that are sustainable and repairable; how to properly recycle or dispose of old devices when it is beyond use; and promoting software and services that allow us to reduce our environmental impact in the long term, both at work and in our personal lives.

This isn't a competition, it's a reminder to stay grounded when making your decisions. Remember: The most sustainable device is the one that you are already using.

Rules:

  1. Stay on-topic. Everything from sustainable smartphones to data centers and the green energy that powers them is fair game.
  2. Be excellent to each other.

Note: This is hosted on Lemmy at SDF. If you are browsing from the larger Fediverse, search for

[[email protected]](/c/[email protected])

and hit the Subscribe button.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

MAFF (a shit-show, unsustained)

Firefox used to have an in-house format called MAFF (Mozilla Archive File Format), which boiled down to a zip file that had HTML and a tree of media. I saved several web pages that way. It worked well. Then Mozilla dropped the ball and completely abandoned their own format. WTF. Did not even give people a MAFF→mhtml conversion tool. Just abandoned people while failing to realize the meaning and purpose of archival. Now Firefox today has no replacement. No MHTML. Choices are:

  • HTML only
  • HTML complete (but not as a single file but a tree of files)

MHTML (shit-show due to non-portable browser-dependency)

Chromium-based browsers can save a whole complete web page to a single MHTML file. Seems like a good move but then if you open Chromium-generated MHTML files in Firefox, you just get an ascii text dump of the contents which resembles a fake email header, MIME, and encoded (probably base64). So that’s a show-stopper.

exceptionally portable approach: A plugin adds a right-click option called “Save page WE” (available in both Firefox and Chromium). That extension produces an MHTML file that both Chromium and Firefox can open.

PDF (lossy)

Saving or printing a web page to PDF mostly guarantees that the content and representation can reasonably be reproduced well into the future. The problem is that PDF inherently forces the content to be arranged on a fixed width that matches a physical paper geometry (A4, US letter, etc). So you lose some data. You lose information about how to re-render it on different devices with different widths. You might save on A4 paper then later need to print it to US letter paper, which is a bit sloppy and messy.

PDF+MHTML hybrid

First use Firefox with the “Save page WE” plugin to produce an MHTML file. But relying on this alone is foolish considering how unstable HTML specs are even still today in 2024 with a duopoly of browser makers doing whatever the fuck they want - abusing their power. So you should also print the webpage to a PDF file. The PDF will ensure you have a reliable way to reproduce the content in the future. Then embed the MHTML file in the PDF (because PDF is a container format). Use this command:

$ pdfattach webpage.pdf webpage.mhtml webpage_with_HTML.pdf

The PDF will just work as you expect a PDF to, but you also have the option to extract the MHTML file using pdfdetach webpage_with_HTML.pdf if the need arises to re-render the content on a different device.

The downside is duplication. Every image is has one copy stored in the MTHML file and another copy separately stored in the PDF next to it. So it’s shitty from a storage space standpoint. The other downside is plugin dependency. Mozilla has proven browser extensions are unsustainable when they kicked some of them out of their protectionist official repository and made it painful for exiled projects to reach their users. Also the mere fact that plugins are less likely to be maintained than a browser builtin function.

We need to evolve

What we need is a way to save the webpage as a sprawled out tree of files the way Firefox does, then a way to stuff that whole tree of files into a PDF, while also producing a PDF vector graphic that references those other embedded images. I think it’s theoretically possible but no tool exists like this. PDF has no concept of directories AFAIK, so the HTML tree would likely have to be flattened before stuffing into the PDF.

Other approaches I have overlooked? I’m not up to speed on all the ereader formats but I think they are made for variable widths. So saving a webpage to an ereader format of some kind might be more sensible than PDF, if possible.

(update) The goals

  1. Capture the webpage as a static snapshot in time which requires no network to render. Must have a simple and stable format whereby future viewers are unlikely to change their treatment of the archive. PDF comes close to this.
  2. Record the raw original web content in a non-lossy way. This is to enable us to re-render the content on different devices with different widths. Future-proofness of the raw content is likely impossible because we cannot stop the unstable web standards from changing. But capturing a timestamp and web browser user-agent string would facilitate installation of the original browser. A snapshot of audio, video, and the code (JavaScript) which makes the page dynamic is also needed both for forensic purposes (suitable for court) and for being able to faithfully reproduce the dynamic elements if needed. This is to faithfully capture what’s more of an application than a document. wget -m possibly satisfies this. But perhaps tricky to capture 3rd party JS without recursing too far on other links.
  3. A raw code-free (thus partially lossy) snapshot for offline rendering is also needed if goal 1 leads to a width-constrained format. Save page WE and WebScrapBook apparently satisfies this.

PDF satisfies goal 1; wget satisfies goal 2; maff/mhtml satisfies goal 3. There is likely no single format that does all of the above, AFAIK. But I still need to explore these suggestions.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yeah in that case it would be better to preserve as close as possible the original.

In my case, most of the stuff I archive are articles, tutorials, documentation and stuff that doesn't change often so markdown fits that bill relatively well, and can be read in plain-text quite easily which is great for future-proofing readability.