this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
1429 points (99.9% liked)
196
16429 readers
2086 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This comment section is a riot.
So if someone truly has values that fall on both sides of the aisle, and can tell you what they don’t agree with on both sides, and can admit fault to each side… that makes them Republican?
I’d rather take someone any day that will take a stance on individual issues over just agreeing with what a specific political party says.
Everyone saying in this comment section that you aren’t strictly a Democrat you’re wrong/the problem… are indeed themselves the problem and are kidding themselves.
Right : kill all minorities. Left : noooooooo Centrist : lets save half of them! Go figure.
So what if someone doesn’t want to kill minorities but wants to buy guns and wants limited government involvement in the economy?
Then they don't vote R.
I put the lives of people over my personal need for luxury items like guns.
Republicans are also the government that involves themselves the most in everything. "Small gov"-republicans are a farce unless you want a dictator.
The point is you’re talking in extremes. And I will agree extreme liberals are better than extreme conservatives, the world isn’t that black and white, especially when you talk about voting for anyone besides President.
Limited government involvement in the economy means wanting to kill poor people, which means wanting to kill minorities.
That may be the way you see it, but I don’t.
I suppose this is where you call me a Nazi because I disagree with you?
You're either a Nazi or a useful idiot for Nazis
No you
Do you have any actual policies that you agree with? Having guns and not killing minorities are not policies, that's just culture war shit.
With the left or the right?
A few things I side with: universal healthcare, reduced military spending, gay rights, legalization of marijuana, gun rights, reduced government spending in the business sector, reducing/overhauling the current farm bill, increased infrastructure spending.
Since you need to know? I said that because that’s how the person I was replying to put it, not me.
Hey, those are all left positions
Well, didn’t I say I was neither left or right?
If you're not a leftist, how come you agree with leftists on every political position you find important?
I said I wasn’t left or right, that’s it
If you go far enough left, you get your guns back. Libertarian socialism or Anarcho-communism might be your jam if you want to limit/abolishn the state
It actually is.
The point is the ones u end up supporting for buying guns will want to kill minorities with those guns ! And govt involvement in economy in the US might be the minimum except when it comes to rescue the rich !
So the only reason anyone buys a gun is to kill minorities?
And while the scope is small vs even smaller gov in the US, the difference is still there. To say it doesn’t matter is frankly ignorant.
Then it sounds like they're an anarcho-communist. Ancoms believe in an armed revolution to dismantle the government and protect minority rights. That fits all three of the things you described.
This is a bad strawman argument.
If someone says that they are "centrist" they are not telling you that they base all of their opinions on being in the middle of any two positions. That would be stupid and is an insane argument to put forth on your part.
They are telling you that they agree with neither major party on everything, and find that both parties have views that they don't agree with. It's pretty easy to come to that conclusion because the US two-party system packs in an almost incoherent mishmash of beliefs into exactly two sides.
There is absolutely no contradiction in being for police reform, and against riots lasting for days. There is no contradiction in being for gun rights, while also wanting limits on them. There is no contradiction in wanting functional government services and universal healthcare, and thinking that free markets are effective. There is no contradiction in wanting a more balanced budget, and government services to be funded.
The idea that there are only two (or maybe 2.5 depending on where you live) sides in politics is a strange delusion created by your two party system.
This is literally the definition of the Democratic party right now in the USA. So while I understand you're point, you're failing to see where people are coming from.
Those are examples. I'm speaking to a left wing audience and am using examples they understand. If I were speaking to a right wing audience, I would adjust accordingly.
Haha le funny meme
The left is misguided about certain issues.
The right is outright malicious about just about every issue, and is actively attempting to eliminate all other ideologies, using deception and violence.
That is why both sides are not the same.
Eh…
So while I do agree the extremism is much more dangerous on the right than it is the left… 99% of people don’t fall into these extreme groups anyway.
Maybe that’s just my world view but that’s how it is with people I know/have met in real life.
Both sides argue as if the entire other side is all extremists but the reality is most people fall somewhere in the middle, especially people younger than 50
I wasn't talking about extremism. The mainstream right wing is as I described above.
Exhibit A: abortion bans. Exhibit B: election rigging. Exhibit C: crackdowns on LGBT+. Exhibit D: DeSantis literally advocating for slavery.
This isn't stuff that fringe groups talk about. It's stuff that mainstream right-wing politicians are actually doing as we speak, and they do it with the votes and approval of the people you know/have met in real life.
So are we talking politicians or are we talking regular citizens? Because there’s a big difference.
I read somewhere that over 80% of Americans were against the total abortion ban, for example. Another is an overwhelmingly majority of the country thinks career politicians are a bad idea, yet neither party does.
The problem is not the average American’s views. Very few are extreme. The problem is our politicians are progressively more extreme.
Most people vote Democrat or Republican and are biased one way or the other. If you want to commit career suicide as a politician, do anything that alienated the party you are closer aligned with. I hear people all the time, whether they voted Democrat or Republican, say aiming along the lines of “I don’t agree with a lot of things about (who they voted for) , but it’s better than the alternative!”
And that, in a nutshell, is why career politicians are killing the US.
No, there isn't. Regular citizens demonstrate their leanings in who they vote for. If you knowingly vote for a progressive/fascist/communist/theocrat/whatever, then that makes you a progressive/fascist/communist/theocrat/whatever.
Then why did they vote for candidates from a party that's spent the last several decades promising to ban abortion?
Over 80% of Americans may not be willing to directly admit that they want a total abortion ban, but significantly fewer than 80% of Americans are actually opposed to it. That was firmly proven when they voted for the Republicans who passed said ban, and unless there is a blue wave next year, it will be proven once again.
The Republicans want to institute a dystopia of slavery and christofascism, and that's somehow better than the alternative? No. No, it is not. That's absurd.
What's killing the US is the extreme cruelty of a significant and growing fraction of its populace. Career politicians are merely doing what the populace wants.
Why, because most people vote for a party and side with a party, not issues.
I’m not saying that’s right, in fact I feel the exact opposite. That’s just my observation of the world we live in in why that disconnect exists.
That's no excuse. When your side turns evil, you're supposed to switch sides, not support evil.
I’m not making an excuse, I gave you my opinion on why it is the way it is and why politics in the US are screwed up.
The other element is not all Democrat politicians are the same the same way not all Republican ones are either.
The problem is there is constantly less moderation in political positions in both parties. But if you think Presidents like Eisenhower and Trump are exactly the same just because they are Republicans, or Senator Masto vs Pelosi just because they are Democrats you’re being ignorant.
The world isn’t black and white either
The Democrats are moderate. The most extreme "Democrat" I can think of right now is Bernie and he lost his election. And all he was mainly pushing for was Universal Healthcare - something literally EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION has. So even that isn't extreme in an expanded worldview. Democrats are moderate, maybe even center right-wing in the grand scheme of the world.
The Republicans are extreme. I can't even pick one Republican that is extreme. Boeburt, Greene, Trump, DeSantis, Abbott. That's just the ones that stick in the news the most because of their insane choices and behaviors. Their party literally attacked the capital and tried to overthrow the government and install their own leader. They are as extreme as they can be without causing an all out civil war.
It's consistent and repeated events that show this.
What are you even talking about about?
What is this even in reference to? Nothing the other guy has said is a black or white interpretation - it's an observation of reality. Don't just give platitudes, actually give explains and evidence.
I mean... They're called Representatives right? Because they represent the people?
So, those politicians (Representatives) represent people, yes.
I'm not a Democrat. I'll never be one. I'm liberal as fuck though and will NEVER vote Republican. I'll gladly criticize the Democrats and won't get mad if you shit on them.
I vote for certain stances in a candidate, and how they prioritize them as a rough guide on how I vote. It also depends on what office I’m voting for too, as well as what level of government.