this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace

The shooting war in Ukraine began with Yanukovych’s overthrow nine years ago, not in February 2022 as the U.S. government, NATO, and the G7 leaders would have us believe.

So many people forget that the Ukrainian Russian conflict never really ended, the idea that it was an unprovoked invasion is absurd, (and no, before someone decides to make a braindead comment, provoked does not mean justified.) There have been many leaked videos pre-invasion of violence towards both sides, and neither side made a proper effort to actually quell it, only surface level bullshit inorder to take the "moral ground:

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Westerners usually don’t know any of that, because Western governments, NGOs, and corporate media erase all inconvenient context and history. I try to point folks toward developing real media literacy

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 hours ago

@davel @drwankingstein All of which have their biases and really a very limited subsample of viewpoints and history.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 hours ago (5 children)

Holy shit I didn't know admins in this place were full blown Russian lickers. I don't know about you but I would gladly have my country join nato if that means not ending up like Georgia or now Ukraine twice.

Also congrats on getting Finland to finally join nato btw.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago

always hilarious to see nafoids show up here

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Cool, maybe the US will blow up its new ally’s pipelines too someday. We are not a trustworthy ally.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

@Samueru @davel Is there something about people from lemmy.ml that makes them only capable of insults as opposed to rational discussions?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

What rational discussion is to be had when one country is clearly annexing another since 2014 lmao?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 hours ago

The US currently occupies a larger percentage of Syria than Russia is of Ukraine, but do go on.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

@Samueru The history goes back way before 2014 and your summation of the situation is inaccurate.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago

@Samueru I find it humorous that someone would downvote me for suggesting that history goes back more than a decade. Guess they are less than ten years old and think their parents appeared out of nowhere when they were born.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Yes it goes back to Holodomor and how russia has always treated ukranians as second class citizens.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

During the 1932 Holodomor Famine, the USSR sent aid to affected regions in an attempt to alleviate the famine. According to Mark Tauger in his article, The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933:

While the leadership did not stop exports, they did try to alleviate the famine. A 25 February 1933 Central Committee decree allotted seed loans of 320,000 tons to Ukraine and 240,000 tons to the northern Caucasus. Seed loans were also made to the Lower Volga and may have been made to other regions as well. Kul'chyts'kyy cites Ukrainian party archives showing that total aid to Ukraine by April 1933 actually exceeded 560,000 tons, including more than 80,000 tons of food

Some bring up massive grain exports during the famine to show that the Soviet Union exported food while Ukraine starved. This is fallacious for a number of reasons, but most importantly of all the amount of aid that was sent to Ukraine alone actually exceeded the amount that was exported at the time.

Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933.

According to Tauger, the reason why more aid was not provided was because of the low harvest

It appears to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports.

Tauger is not a communist, and ultimately this specific article takes the view that the low harvest was caused by collectivization (he factors in the natural causes of the famine in later articles, based on how he completely neglects to mention weather in this article at all its clear that his position shifted over the years). However, the Soviets really did try to alleviate the famine as best as they could. Maybe spend some time learning a bit of history instead of flaunting your ignorance in public.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2500600

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Right??? They act like they are concerned about what events could have taken place to ensure that the invasion never happened. Guess what could have occurred that would have been the biggest guarantee that the invasion could never happen? Ukraine joining NATO prior to the invasion....

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

All NATO wanted to do was to use Ukraine as a tool to weaken Russia, and now NATO will discard Ukraine like a used condom. That's the fate of all the vassals of the empire.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

@yogthos @theunknownmuncher The controllers of said empire isn't the elected government. How we can reign that back in, I don't know.

[–] 0x0 1 points 13 minutes ago

How we can reign that back in, I don’t know.

They're above the law, so... guillotines.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago

That's the big question of our times.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 hours ago

@theunknownmuncher @Samueru Like Russia placing nukes in Cuba guaranteed we wouldn't invade it?

The thing about not being willing to learn from history is that you are then destined to repeat the same mistakes.