this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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What kind of fucking moron tells themselves they're going to vote for Trump because Harris might continue to support Israel? Trump would be far, far worse for Gaza.
Hey mod - why remove my comment?
What kind of fucking moron tells themselves that the quickest way to keep Trump out of power is to try and persuade thousands of "fucking morons" not to be morons anymore, rather than persuade one rational and intelligent strategy team to change policy?
It's the sickening how you sycophants will hold nothing back in abuse toward you fellow citizens (whose vote you'd presumably like), but defend to the hilt every decision of your cult leaders.
And you wonder why America gets Trump?
I agree but reality is voting third party is never going to teach DNC anything right now. So long as the GOP exists they will do something dumb again in 4 years. Both major parties are going to support Isreal in some way. Vote the gop out to the void and turn on the DNC next. This way at least maybe women in US won't risk dying or jail time.
The question I keep asking and get no reply to is, how?
How do we "turn on the DNC next". In your scenario, we've just given them the unequivocal message that they can be assured of our votes no matter what their policies are, even supporting genocide doesn't loose them votes, so long as the Republicans are worse.
So, by what mechanism do we "turn on the DNC"?
Why would they listen to a single protest, campaign, or speech knowing that their votes are secure no matter what?
DNC already know people only vote for them no matter what because the GOP is the big baddy and not even hiding it. DNC behavior over the years taught me that. Literally nothing the public will do will change their minds. They'll pop champagne like those wall streeters.
Yeah that's the kicker. I know this is 100% hopful but in a ideal world GOP eats itself when Trump loses again and the DNC is now effectively replacing the GOP as the conservative party. I will 100% be telling people to vote third party to break the DNC. Of course I thought this would happen in 2020 but Trump rallied the GOP. DNC need to get what they deserve but I can't risk my sisters safety over my wants to punish them. It's like the anachrist communist meme. Truce until the revolution.
Best answer I've had yet. I'm not convinced, but at least it's a plan with an actual mechanism that isn't contrary to reality.
The reason I'm not convinced is that it would require politics to be far less Machiavellian than it is. All the while it's in their best interests to have Trump-the-devil as their opponent, they'll push that narrative, true or not. I think the Democrats will be too scared to push too far to the centre for the very reasons you've given, they might loose support to an actual left-wing and their donors simply won't risk that. The Democrat's job is to suck energy from actual left-wing campaigns. To do they they need to stay left, but not too left.
And, of course, they need to convince millions of people more progressive than they are, to vote for them regardless because "the other guy...".
But still, I respect your plan. Hope I'm wrong, and it works.
No-one will vote for Trump instead they will transfer their vote to third party because "accelerating war" and "being pro-genocide" is not what everyone wants from democratic party. Maybe Dems don't understand their voters.
Which is implicitly voting for Trump. Again, really fucking stupid.
Atleast you agree that these votes are important but you should also understand that republicans can get votes by committing "wars and genocides" but dems voters are not comfortable with these things. Dems should acknowledge the demands of their voters.
Harris is not in a position where she can do that until after the election. I'm not arguing that she will or won't... only that she can't right now regardless of her actual stance.
You're not 'arguing' anything at all. You're just declaring it to be the case with so much as a scrap of evidence offered.
All the evidence provided indicates a sizeable demographic of ex-Democrat voters who would readily vote Democrat again if they changed policy on arms sales.
No polling data from anywhere indicates that keeping arms sales is the key to the swing states.
All polling data that's been provided indicates that banning arms sales is the key to the swing states.
So what is tying Harris's hands exactly? Spell it out.
Just because you're not following the argument nor participating in the conversation doesn't mean I'm not making one.
Anyone who cares about Gaza and doesn't vote for Harris doesn't actually care about Gaza and are just attention seeking, trolling, and/or fucking stupid.
You've provided no evidence at all for this, and all the available evidence demonstrates the contrary.
Just declaring things to be the case isn't an argument. You have to bring evidence to bear.
Again. No evidence, and all the available evidence is to the contrary.
Again, all the evidence given shows the opposite.
The vast majority of Democrat voters and a smaller group of Republican voters want to stop arms sale to Israel.
A huge proportion of key voters in swing states want to stop arms sales to Israel.
Voters angry at the Democrats for not stopping arms sales to Israel are actively saying they will abstain or vote Trump.
No group, poll, or campaign has come out to claim they'll vote Trump if the Democrats stop arms sales to Israel.
All this evidence supports the view that stopping arms sales to Israel will gain Democrats a massive number of additional votes, some of which will be from otherwise Trump voters.
You've provided no evidence to the contrary.
Perhaps you don't understand how elections work? In this case, either Harris or Trump is going to win. That will be based on which one gets the most votes. Every vote cast that is not for Harris automatically helps Trump. There is really nothing to debate here.
And that makes them fucking stupid because they'd rather put in someone who will definitely destroy Gaza than someone who might not help Gaza as much as they'd like.
Trump's voters want Gaza gone. They would be perfectly fine with just dropping a nuke on them an calling it a day. For Harris to come out now to support Gaza over Israel would mean two things. Those who might have been leaning away from Trump for other reasons will have cause to go ahead and vote for him. Harris will lose votes from those who support Israel. Believe it or not, there are plenty of Democrats who also wouldn't mind if Gaza would just go ahead and die, already. You will have religious zealots who might have otherwise voted for Harris instead vote for Trump.
So just doubling down on blind assertions? The lack of intellectual integrity is astounding.
To win, Harris does not need to take votes from Trump. She can win by taking votes from Independents and currently non-voters.
The evidence is that this group would vote for her if she changed policy on arms sales to Israel.
There is no evidence of a similar sized group of currently committed Democrats who would not vote for her if she changed policy on arms sales to Israel.
As such, there is no evidence for your claim that she needs to keep this policy to win and what evidence there is suggests the opposite.
That's how evidence works, your theory is supposed to respond to it.
No they don't. The polls suggest they are about 50/50 on the matter. Again, evidence helps us here rather than just spewing whatever we reckon.
No. Again, there's no evidence from polling of a significant group who would do this.
No. Again the actual evidence shows over 60% of Democrats want arms sales to Israel banned, and only a tiny percentage actually want them maintained (the rest undecided). The figures are even higher in Michigan, as an example of a key swing state.
The evidence is that if they don't vote for her then they're going to get Trump who will absolutely destroy Gaza (and the U.S.) If they don't vote for her or don't vote at all then they are fucking morons. They will take their moral convictions to their graves.
Well a vice president can't just change policy against the wishes of the president. Nor do they regularly deviate in public opinion. That's not something that needs to be looked up.
As to weather she would actually do that, well, only the future knows that.
Apologies for my lack of clarity. I was using 'Harris' as shorthand for 'the Harris campaign'. I mean to ask why they wouldn't change policy... The campaign team.