118
In a State With School Vouchers For All, Low-Income Families Aren’t Choosing to Use Them.
(www.propublica.org)
this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2024
118 points (98.4% liked)
News
23275 readers
4208 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Mine was publicly run, but I'm old enough to pre-date any US Charter Schools. My point in bringing up Vocational/Technical schools is that they were the rare exception to primary education that didn't follow the traditional public school model. That difference meant success to me where the traditional public school meant mediocre performance and lack of achievement.
Charter Schools have the opportunity (I'm not saying they all do) to have that difference for a student that needs it outside of the traditional model of public schools.
I have no doubt that those exist, and may even be in the majority of Charter Schools, but I've also seen many the specialize in one type of education (STEM focused, Aerospace, Art, etc) or education to accommodate students with different learning methods (ADHD, Dyslexia, etc).
This is the root of my question: Is there a way you can see to fix the Charter School problems while still preserving the concept that a school that can approach education in a different way that every other school? What would you laws/rules would you put in place to fix this without simply making Charter Schools illegal?
You're calling out all the problems of what we have today as Charter Schools, and I can see they can be valid criticisms. How can we fix those so that the value of a different kind of education that Charter School's can bring that Public Schools don't can be achieved?
There's nothing wrong with a school district operating different types of schools, such as VT schools...
Not one piece of my critique was about "educational styles or content", it was entirely based on private entities siphoning off public funding for schools that are allowed to discriminate, not serve as a public resource, and disregard many, if not most, of the laws protecting students and public schools.
You're conflating your experience with a VT to Charter Schools, and it's not the same. Plenty of districts run specialized schools, for both blue collar and white collar track students.
I am sure there are plenty of white papers that deal with Charter School reform, and they would have much better ideas than I do on the subject.
Off the top of my head, they could start with:
Legally requiring transparency in admissions and a publicly accountable admissions processes. No more smoking mirrors that magically result in suspiciously high achieving, upper income, and low behavioral issues student bodies, relative to the surrounding areas.
Or better yet, abolishing them as they exist, and folding them into the public education system. If their is a parent demand for differentiated and specialized advanced public schools, have an established process to do that within a school district.
Charters are already stealing public funds, so why shouldn't they be held to the same laws and regulations that protect all students?
The thing is, I would bet you that the majority of new Charter schools, like within the last 20 years, would shut their doors if they were forced into the public school system. Because student discrimination and having a publicly funded quasi private school, that keeps out the undesirables, is the point.
Its not common. Its rare, and its needed more. That is my point. If public schools won't, and Charter Schools will, I want students to have the ability to get education that matches their compatible way of learning.
I understand ALL of that. I'm not saying that is your point. I'm expanding the conversation slightly because it sounds like you only have negative things to say about Charter Schools. I'm the one introducing the "educational styles" argument, because most of my personal experience with public schools was NOT compatible with my learning style. I'm guessing I'm not alone. In this way public schools are failing students.
They share a similarity in that they can offer different type of curriculum besides the traditional college prep track. In that way they can be the same. Yes, I'm saying in ONE WAY they are the same.
A very small percentage to, and my experience is that those that do offer different education are in largely high income districts where they have the money to offer those in addition to their regular college prep public school offerings.
This is what I was looking for. Thank you for sharing that your opinion is that they shouldn't exist.
One-size-fits-all really means "one-size-fits-none-well". Public School are failing students that don't learn the way public schools teach. If public schools can't or won't adapt teaching/curriculum methods, I don't accept that students just need to suck it up and fail. I'll accept that Charter Schools may not be the answer, but we also know that Public Schools, as they are today, isn't the answer either.
I appreciate your honest and you sharing you opinion even if I disagree with you.
It's not rare. I went to public school in a medium sized, mixed income district, in a red state, that had VT schools, and alternative pedagogy schools for creative and gifted kids. All run by the public school district.
I don't know what you think a Charter School is, but when I say educational style, I mean alternative pedagogies. Which is is how charter schools typically differentiate themselves publicly, but again, they're not mentioning out loud the other aspects that I've laid out previously.
Which is why although you say you understand what I'm saying, I don't think you really do. And maybe that's my fault for not properly articulating everything, but I'm on a phone and these comments are already way too long to properly review and manage.
I didn't say they shouldn't exist. You asked me for ideas for reform. I suggested reading real academics who study this issue, but for the sake of conversation, one of my suggestions was folding the concept of charter schools into the public education system. As in, let them fulfill they're publicly stated objective of developing alternative pedagogies schools for differently abled students, but bring them into the public sector, with all the accountability, transparency, and legal protections for all students.
To be fair, I can see you're being genuine, but not sure you understand the money and influence behind these pushes for charter schools for the past 2 decades.
I'm wondering if part of the disconnect is that your envisioning charter schools from when you were a kid, versus what they are now after the explosion they've had in the last 20 years.
I feel that you sincerely believe this movement is done benevolently, and for the purpose of educating and creating better students. While I don't deny that those schools do exist, nor that many parents and students believe that is the mission statement, that's not as relevant to the political forces driving these changes.
This movement has gained political traction in the last two decades from the same people who push vouchers, and they do it with intent to degrade truly public education infrastructure, and create publicly funded private schools for the correct social and economic classes.
Because otherwise, there's no reason why it couldn't have been done within the framework of public education, just like my old school district did.
Oh, and public education isn't failing. America has some of the best public schools in the world, and some of the worst. This comes down to a lot of factors, including the fact that schools are primarily funded by local property taxes. Meaning wealthy schools get more resources, and poor schools get a whole lot less, even if they're right next to each other.
The first thing I’d want to know is actual data on this. What districts offer these? What percentage? Where? I don’t know enough about this to see a pattern but I know at least one district that is not high income. Is it rare or common? Is it because my state has among the best education systems in the country? Is it because we’re willing to spend more on our kids? Is it because a high cost of living area means that even low income is not low relative to other parts of the country? Gotta ask, but is it political?
Chances are the best answer is to do the hard work, spend the money to improve public education everywhere. I know that’s not always practical, and it would take too long to benefit current kids, but we really need to find a way.
School vouchers have the appearance of helping individual students immediately, but starving the school system just makes the overall problem worse