Atheism
Community Guide
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Statement of Purpose
- This is a support and conversation community for people who don't believe in gods.
- Superstition hucksters have no reason to subscribe or post here at all.
- If you are looking to debate or proselytize, options will be linked lower in the sidebar.
Acceptable
- Honest questions or conversations.
- Discussions on parenting or advice.
- Struggles, frustrations, coming out.
- Atheist memes. We can have fun!
- News headlines relevant to atheism.
Unacceptable
Depending on severity, you might be warned before adverse action is taken.
- Anything against site rules.
- Illegal and/or NSFW material.
- Troll posts and comments. There will be no attempt to explain what that means.
- Leading questions, agenda pushing, or disingenuous attempts to bait members.
- Personal attacks or flaming.
Inadvisable
- Self promotion or upvote farming.
- Excessive shitposting or off-topic discussion.
Application of warnings or bans will be subject to moderator discretion. Feel free to appeal. If changes to the guidelines are necessary, they will be adjusted.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a group that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of any other group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you you will be banned on sight.
Provable means able to provide proof to the moderation, and, if necessary, to the community.
~ /c/nostupidquestions
If you want your space listed in this sidebar and it is especially relevant to the atheist or skeptic communities, PM DancingPickle and we'll have a look!
Connect with Atheists
- Matrix: #atheism:envs.net
Help and Support Links
- Freedom From Religion Foundation
- The Secular Therapy Project
- Secular Students Alliance
- Black Nonbelievers
- The Clergy Project
- Atheist Alliance International
- Sunday Assembly
- Atheist Ireland
- Atheism UK
- Atheists United
Streaming Media
This is mostly YouTube at the moment. Podcasts and similar media - especially on federated platforms - may also feature here.
- Atheist Debates - Matt Dillahunty
- Rationality Rules
- Friendly Atheist
- Making Sense with Sam Harris
- Cosmic Skeptic
- Genetically Modified Skeptic
- Street Epistemology
- Armored Skeptic
- NonStampCollector
Orgs, Blogs, Zines
- Center for Inquiry
- American Atheists
- Humanists International
- Atheist Republic
- The Brights
- The Angry Atheist
- History for Atheists
- Rationalist International
- Atheist Revolution
- Debunking Christianity
- Godless Mom
- Atheist Freethinkers
Mainstream
Bibliography
Start here...
...proceed here.
- God is Not Great (Hitchens)
- The God Delusion (Dawkins)
- The End of Faith (Harris)
- Why I Am Not a Christian (Russell)
- Letter to a Christian Nation (Harris)
Proselytize Religion
From Reddit
As a community with an interest in providing the best resources to its members, the following wiki links are provided as historical reference until we can establish our own.
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I am not religious, but I honestly think that the best thing that could happen, overall, is humanity killing ourselves off. We're a net negative for almost everything else on this planet.
The difference is that I, and all - or at least, the vast majority - of the folks you refer to aren't actively trying to make it happen.
It also continues to make things progressively worse for other species. Are you saying you think that we'll eventually find a way to overcome the heat death of the universe, and that that chance makes anything we do in the meantime justified?
Or are you saying that since we're the most intelligent species on the planet, our comfort is what matters, and if anything else suffers for that end, it's okay?
Maybe, but I think we don't deserve it, and most other life here is worse off for it.
I think a fundamental cornerstone of our disagreement is that you view us as being entitled to special privileges because we're the dominant intelligence on the planet, whereas I think that bestows upon us additional responsibilities as custodians of the planet.
All that aside, though, I think you're misunderstanding my viewpoint. I'm not saying that myself or others "deserve" to be extinct; I'm saying that I think it would be a net positive for the planet as a whole if we were. Almost every other species would be better off if we weren't here. (The exceptions are mostly ones we've caused - there's species near extinction that we're preserving, but in most cases we caused their near-extinct status. There's domesticated species that wouldn't do well in the wild, but we created that reliance on us.) You can't really compare the widespread intentional devastation we cause to habitats through deforestation, expansion, and pollution (as one example) to a whale eating krill. For one, it's the natural cycle of life, and their ecosystem is balanced around it. For another, we have the intelligence to recognize and understand what we're doing, and the fact that we're continuing to do it anyway is, in my opinion, a wholly unforgivable act.
As intelligent creatures, we alone care about being preserved or remembered. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that any other species understands the concept, even, but I'd be interested in reading it if you've seen research to the contrary.
There is, and I am focusing on the negatives, but that's because I feel that as far as the rest of the planet is concerned, the harm we're causing out-weigh the positives we bring. That's all my view is stating - there's no 'judging' or claims that we deserve extinction. Just a belief that, objectively, our presence here is a net negative for the rest of the planet. We've removed ourselves from the natural order and now reign above it, and we're ruining it for everything else.
Much to decompress in that statement.
To 1. I think it is more of a collossal case of denial and lazyness than what I would term "intentional", but the result is the same.
To 2. Do you really think that whales would refrain from eating all the krill (and subsequently starve to extinction) if they had the chance? So why is our behaviour worse? We are a demonstration of the working of the "natural cycle of life". We are in the process of using up, wiping out or poluting all the ressources that we (and incidentally most higher lifeforms on our planet) need to survive. Due to that we might die out. As would the whales if they ate all the krill (which many other species in the ocean need to survive).
To 3. You are applying human moral standards that no one but us cares about. There is no evidence of a higher authority that could judge us.
Don't get me wrong, what we are doing right now is beyond stupid. We know what our impact does to the ecosystem and we should do everything we can to change that. But we seem to be unable to do that. That we are discussing this on a medium that produces millions of tonnes of CO2 each year, most of it just to distract us from our life and help us fight boredom, is a perfect sarcastic point to this.
Yet, humans will not be the end of life on this planet. Right now we don't even have the means to wipe out all life on it, even if we tried. We might just manage to kill of all the higher animals, but that has happened multiple times before in the history of this planet.
This does not make it OK in any way.
I will concede that calling it 'intentional' may be heavy-handed. It's being done with knowledge of the long-term effects, though. We're making the informed decision to continue... perhaps due to laziness, as you note.
No, I'm sure they would eat all the krill and starve to extinction... that's how nature works. The krill population is kept in check by the whales, and the whale population is kept in check by the size of the krill population. If there were too many whales, they'd eat too many krill and wouldn't be able to sustain themselves, and their population would decline, allowing the krill population to resurge. Or they wouldn't, and both species would go extinct.
I agree with you, it's just that, unlike the whale / krill analogy, we're poised to take out a lot of other species with us when we go. All my view is stating is that it would be a net positive if we died out before that happens.
My statement that this was 'unforgivable' was in reference to our supposed role as custodians of the planet (as the most intelligent lifeform here). I believe we have a duty to take care of it and that, with respect to that duty, our failing to do so is unforgivable. (I suppose in this respect I am judging us.)
I agree with you, and I'm glad for that. I also agree with you that that doesn't make any of it okay.
The two statements that I made, both of which I stand behind, are:
I believe that, from the perspective of the rest of the planet, or the planet's population as a whole, the best thing that could happen would be us killing ourselves off, yes. That makes no claim that we 'deserve' extinction, or that we do not. It's merely a statement that, as a whole, we cause more problems than we fix. They'd almost all be better off without us.
I was perhaps misinterpreting your comment that
And if so, then I apologize.
Are you making this statement based on the fact that we're still around, and therefore have overcome every other period of hardship we've faced (as a species)? With the state of climate change and global warming where it is, we're moving into unprecedented territory; if we're basing this statement on our trajectory as a species, I would argue that evidence shows that we'll continue doing too little until it's too late. I hope that proves incorrect.
Yes, and I think I very clearly stated that I disagree with their stance:
Believing the world would be better off if something were to happen is not the same as actively hoping it does happen or working to make it happen. (Since we're throwing around logical fallacies, that would be a false equivalence).
That would be true, except for the simple fact that, just because I think it would be the best outcome for the planet as a whole, doesn't mean I have to be working towards it. From the perspective of everything else living here, it would be best if we all died. If we don't, it's increasingly likely that we take some or all of them with us when we do.
You do not really think that, even if some descendant of us still exists at the time of the heat death of the universe (having somehow survived billions of years in a dark universe with no posibillity (to our present knowledge) to generate any kind of usable energy), they will in any way be human? Or even be able to remember or discover that we were their ancestors?
Edit (Addendum): I think even if human descendants should be around at the death of our sun, they will not be able to be called (or remember being) human.
I'm not very religious either and I think you're an idiot, since only idiots give up the potential for greatness, because they themselves forget to balance out the daily intake of negativity with positivity.
I’m sure calling people idiots give them more hope in humanity.
A guy who willingly, consciously poisons himself with negativity and becomes a cancerous nihilist, who spreads his misery onto others, deserves no empathy. It's pearls before swines.
And you, kind sir, instead of being judgmental towards me, feel free to put that energy into fixing the nihilist, if you feel so empathetic.
I can do both. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I try to never use insults to win arguments. Be the change you want to see in the world.
But you won't. At best you're gonna make some honey-sweet comment as the means of proving me wrong, offering fake sympathies, but you won't progress much further. Because being judgmental towards others gives you a pleasure boost, at the cost of time, focus and energy that the process of helping others requires...
So no. You won't.
Do you have something you want to talk/ vent about? I’ll listen 👂
I’ll go first. Climate change scares the crap out of me.
For that I have friends, family and - if need be - a specialist.
Random people from the Internet, especially those that decide to use judgmental attitude as the means to start a conversation, aren't particularly good choice for personal conversations.
But there's a guy in this thread you were so worried about, feel free to focus all your attention at him and bring him back to the light, so to speak.
Unfortunately I can’t do that. Because I agree with him. I wake up every day with hope for the world until climate change pushes me to despair. So I understand why some want it to end.
Then you're an idiot yourself too, for only idiots decide consciously to stay in misery, possibly spreading it onto others, rather than find the way to live a better, happier life.
G'day.
So it’s okay for you to judge me, but not for me to judge you? We all judge, I was just encouraging you not to call others idiot when you do. It’s a very low bar.
Absolutely, because I'm crystal clear about my motivation and feelings I harbor for the likes of you. I don't pretend to be anything else than I am and I don't hide behind any faked concerns, empathy and such. The nihilistic kind like yourself, who dwell in your misery and spread it onto others should be prevented from interacting with the healthy society as much as possible, especially online.
I’ve found that those who harbor concerns like mine are some of the most empathetic, kind and loving people I’ve met. It’s because we love the world so much that we are in pain and miserable. I don’t pretend to care. I do. But you’re so self righteous that you can’t see that. Jesus hung out with the lepers, the poor, the miserable. Be like Jesus.
Interesting. Well, not really.
I'm not part of this discussion. Is it okay for me to judge you as an impartial third party?
Of course. It's still considerably free world.
Well then, you come across as quite unnecessarily rude.
I have low tolerance for manipulative types and have nothing but scorn for them.
And yet you're the one coming across badly here, not the several people you've been rude to. I don't see why anyone would be convinced by the things you are saying when you're saying them so rudely.
Convinced?
What are you taking me for, my good dude? A teacher who got paid to straighten up some kids? A crusader who descends into caves to bring the light to creatures of the dark? Seriously...
No, just a person who is rudely trying to get points across and not doing well because of the rudeness.
Once the manipulations appear, there's no point in being polite. It's, once again "pearls before swines".
I know, I know, "why can't we all be friends" and all that, but the harsh truth is that if you see an online discussant being manipulative, then whatever effort you're going to make, to keep it civil, is a waste.
No one is being manipulative. That's nonsense. People are just giving their opinions, like you are, but most of them are not being unreasonably mean about it.
If you don't see it, it's neither my will nor mission to convince you.
May you have a nice day.
Well all I can say is that it doesn't make much sense that multiple unrelated people are all trying to manipulate you when they don't even know who you are. That seems a bit on the conspiratorial side.
You're literally judging others in these posts. You seem a little unhinged. Obtain meds, take them.
That's not idiocy so much as apathy. Apathy comes from repeated disappointment.
Giving up to apathy counts as idiocy anyway.
Would you like to actually offer a counter-argument to my position? I'd be happy to discuss it. If you're just going to sling ad hominem insults, I'm simply not interested.
You have no position. You have only regrets, wrong opinions and false assumptions based on highly subjective and cherrypicked experiences.
People like you disgust me, because you willingly poison yourselves with toxic content and pretend it's all there is in the world.
You call me a nihilist, but either you didn't read what I said, or you don't know what nihilism means.
My position is that humans are making things worse for almost everything else on the planet, and that the planet as a whole would be better if we weren't here anymore. I'm not really sure how much more clear I can make that. We destroy habitats, pollute everything we touch, we're the cause of global warming, we're only interested in extracting resources and have near complete disregard for the effects on everything else.
You can make the point that there are people working to change this - and you're right, there are, but that's not a counter to the point I'm trying to make. We are, as a species, having a net negative impact on this planet, moreso than any other species. Change my mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician,_heal_thyself
I see there's not any discussion to be had here. Referencing a bible verse in an atheist community is probably not the best tactic, but that aside, I wish you the best, but I'm not going to engage with you further.
There's no discussion to be had with a nihilist who prays for the mankind to wipe out itself.
You're evil, like it or not. Perhaps not the kind of evil that the law persecutes, or army fights so that it does not invade its country, but evil nevertheless.
And don't worry, I'll make sure you won't ever have to interact with me in any way, by blocking you for the rest of eternity. Out of sight, out of mind...