Update: I got banned from hexbear and grad lmao
this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
438 points (94.0% liked)
MeanwhileOnGrad
1390 readers
1 users here now
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
You can keep the enlightened centrism.
The only progress in humanity history stems from centrism. Wanting division does you no favour.
What change has ever come from kneejerk defense of the status quo? Progress comes from progressives. Deriding any strong criticism as "polarizing" or "divisive" is the just-world fallacy writ small. As if there's no fucking difference between 'I'm angry that queer people exist' and 'I'm angry that homophobia exists.' That sort of false equivalence is all there is to enlightened centrism - to the jackasses and scolds insisting that while tankies are bad, anti-tankies are identically guilty, acuz they're mad about it.
You think that anti-tankies are as guilty as tankies? you do know what community this is, don't you?
Try reading that again.
The jackass in the root comment thinks anti-tankies are as guilty as tankies. That's what enlightened centrism is. That's what it fucking means, when someone laments "everyone is completely indoctrinated these days." As if strong opposition to horseshit is identical to horseshit.
Trying to be halfway between horseshit and anti-horseshit is not an anti-horseshit position.
I'm unsure if that's how his comment is meant to be taken. @[email protected], can you go into a bit more detail?
It's not exactly long or complicated. "The rest of lemmy is bad as well. Everyone is completely indoctrinated these days. It’s just complete polarization and extremism. Everyone just reads their corner of the news and needs to believe one side or another."
How much more blatantly "both sides"-y can a comment get? And the response to being called out on it was "welcome to another game of fascist, limbrol, centroid, tankie!" As if the motherfucker didn't just call the rest of lemmy those same extremes!
What could this person say in their defense that is not simply a contradiction of what they wrote?
Sigh ok. First I'm not a tankie or transphobe. I also don't believe in ideology but that it's just used as a mask by those who pursue power the the best at that game don't care about anything but power.
But I'm talking about polarization on Lemmy (and Reddit), and how people are massively downvoted when they question the "official western doctrine". For example like 2 days after the election in Venezuela Blinkin pretty much declared the opposition the winner and Maduro a cheater. All the western media and the US and Europe all agree and sanctioned Venezuela harshly for years now. Yet ANY questioning of this is met with massive downvotes.
On this topic at least you can at least mention the history of imperialist interference, the 2002 coup, the fact that Venezuela has the biggest oil reserves, that the opposition is ultra-far right and that the crippling sanctions amount to economic warfare. Personally I'm skeptical and am waiting for more independent information. But you still immediately get labeled a tankie.
That is the polarization I mean and has nothing to do with enlightened centrism or transphobia. Since Trump the fascists have managed to fortify these camps and suppress any discourse.
This is also extremism and the majority of the "normal Lemming" (~liberals leftist) are totally on board with this. If the majority decides something is this way, anyone else must be an enemy. Objective truth doesn't exist, everything has two sides to it, and since opinions rule might makes right.
And I can tell you pretty much exactly at what point in time this started to happen: 2022 with the Invasion of Ukraine. In one moment the reputation of the US was rehabilitated and is no seen as a guardian of truth, justice, democracy and the policeman of the world again. It's a fucking joke. It doesn't matter who rules in the white house, the US foreign policy is apolitical and it's domination has horrible effects on the world with use of terrorism and crippling sanctions that and destroy democracies in their cribs.
Now the tankies have a very narrow minded definition of liberalism = liberal = fascism = tool of capitalism. I don't share that but they are not wrong in terms of foreign policy. Biden does not give a fuck about "shithole countries" either. They are all doing whatever is needed to gain or maintain power. There is no ideology. Their definition also more and more fits what I see on Lemmy.
So yeah I can identify with the OP meme just "tryna be a human". Maybe we should let Venezuelans sort out Venezuela and not interfere with acts of war (=sanctions). But who knows? I could be lying! Maybe I'm really just a tankie! Or a transphobe! They are everywhere sneaking about! Maybe I'm one of those advanced chinese bots?! Bots are hiding everywhere in your comment section! (EDIT: And yeah unfortunately that is true to an unknown extend)
Basically you can't have a free and open democracy or community if you are "under siege". And social media is under siege and has become "militarized". Sad thing is don't know either what to do or what is real or not. I know it's only going to get worse from here on out.
So @[email protected], tell me what I am? Fascist, limbrol, centroid or tankie?
And Israel had no impact on that, since. Right? Oh no wait, basically everyone here agrees Netanyahu is a bastard, and has made the US complicit in a genocide. The closest thing to supporting the US on this issue is reminding voters what's on the other track of this trolley problem. (But wait, everyone agreeing is automatically bad, somehow. Gotcha!)
Some questions have these things called answers.
What you're projecting is the false equivalence between locally popular opinions and denial of the painfully obvious. Sometimes an issue sounds contentious and polarizing because the argument is "the sky is green" versus "no it fucking isn't." People treating the green-sky-ists as active peddlers of disinformation are not against objective truth. They're not trying to both-sides the color of the goddamn sky. You are. You are the one calling everyone some kind of dishonest, inconsistent, propaganda mouthpiece.
My guy, Biden dropped out.
What you're pushing here is textbook enlightened centrism. You call all ideology equally silly, to the point you think you don't have one. Like how you don't have an accent, right? It's everyone else who talks funny.
And welcome to another game of fascist, limbrol, centroid, tankie!
Could it be because of things you said? No, surely it's my fault.
Gosh, why is everyone but you so extreme and indoctrinated? Literally everyone. You explicitly said, everyone. That's totally different from parroting "both sides," somehow.