Update: I got banned from hexbear and grad lmao
this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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Wow, your reasoning is uh... well it sure is interesting... can't say I see where you're coming from. lemmy.world is like the most conservative instance I can think of
idunno if criticism of Israel can automatically be antisemitic when they're a diverse country of different ethnicities and religions.
I can screenshot your comments as well, doesn't make them more or less correct. I stand by what i said, lemmy.world is full of people i would call woke, or rather fall into the woke spectrum of my country.
This is objectively correct and downvotes won't change that.
And when LW is the most conservative instance you can think of, i think your moral compass is upside down. I did see some "conservatives" (nazis) on LW but the majority belongs to the new left movement, especially regarding their antisemitism.
That's because you're an idiot conservative
Conservatism vs liberalism bas nothing to do with someone's moral compass you dipshit
People like you are the reason why so many people go towards the right side.
Fuck you.
Also you are literally a fucking nazi and exactly what i criticize on LW, your instance is worse but most shit doesn't get federated, besides the piracy community.
Now respectfully, reconsider all your life choices and fuck off.
If someone turns fascist because their skins so think they can't handle a random from the Internet insulting them: that's because they were human trash to begin with
Nice projection
More projection. It's so cute how mad you ignorant fascist fucks get when challenged by a basic insult
Watch your blood pressure, I'm sure someone as terminally online as you probably has issues with that kind of thing
Bro you are literally a no lifer that gone out of their way to downvoted all my recent comments and posts, you are the very definition of a fucking clown Nazi. Also i said fuck off. I mean it just go be a unbearable person somewhere else.
Click name, swipe right slightly on all comments. Took like 30s while I was on the shitter to help lower the spread of your garbage. Takes way more work for you to look into it than it does me to do it
And I enjoy angering pathetic fascists like you by ignoring your worthless demands
🤡 Honk Honk Nazi scum.
https://www.antihate.ca/_honk_honk_antisemitic_meme_before_convoy
This is such a woke comment, wow. You are so woke wtf how do you get so woke woke?
If your worldview is so fragile that a couple mean comments turn you into a hateful shit bag rightoid, you were never on the left to start with, you're just looking for some #walkaway excuse
"Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" makes you look like the child you are.
Take your own advice, and also go touch some fucking grass.
Pray tell, which of the instances have you spotted that are less leftist than lemmy.world? The only ones I can imagine are lemmy.ca and midwest.social, but that's just a guess.
Also what do you mean by "new left" movement? There are a lot of left movements, but not really any that I can think of that diverge greatly from previous left movements.
"Woke" doesn't mean anything. It's a vague, catch-all term used by chuds, for "lefties" and people who want social equality usually, which is obviously not a bad thing, so you must not be using it in that sense.
You seem to already have read the thread. Go look there.
Oh and there are instances that just practice full free speech as long as its not illegal where they host LW bans people for speaking the truth, especially regarding Israel vs Russia and Iran(by proxy)
The new left is the Israel hating crowd of the left because its against imperialism or something stupid along those lines. Oh also they are hyper sensitive regarding the use of words they feel like it could hurt someone, and im not talking about the n-word or similarly high grade insults. Also these people tend to speak for people they don't know and who don't associate with them, wich is especially bad jn my country because these idiots want to completely change our language because its "more inclusive"
Im politically Old left, workers unions, reasonable climate policies, inclusiveness where it is necessary and reasonable and so on, these people in the "woke" spectrum are usually the people that pipeline people to the right with their unintelligent and crazy behavior.
And woke is just a good fitting therm for the new left idiots, because these people made this therm about themselves.
I have not seen a SINGLE one of those instances. And my instance federates with literally everything except for like 3 instances. I'm not saying you're making things up, but outside of extreme fringe communities, almost every (large) Lemmy instance is as "woke" or more "woke" than lemmy.world. lemmy.blahaj.zone, lemm.ee, lemmy.ml, probably even sh.itjust.works (that one's debatable), lemmy.dbzer0.com, sopuli.xyz... I can go on and on. Leftism is way more prevalent in most of those. And yes, the kind that says you shouldn't displace millions or be sexist.
A large chunk of the left has always been anti-Zionism and pro-self-determination, because Israel is literally modern-day colonization. This isn't anything new. The official government of Palestine is full-on Socialist, and it was founded 80 years ago (with other major leftist groups in Palestine dating back even before the Israeli colonization). It's just the difference between the "leftists" who are okay with an ethnostate perpetrating an ethnic cleansing (Israel), and the leftists who aren't.
For a lot of people that's part of the reason, but most of the reason is they're against the displacement, ethnic cleansing, and genocide of Palestinians that started during the colonization of the area by modern-day Israelis. The ruling party of Israel and most of the other parties in the government are descended from organizations that literally described themselves as terrorists, and butchered the population of Palestine since the early 1900s. And, get this, the dominating organizations during this era aligned themselves with Nazism – the Lehi (a faction of the Irgun, modern day Likud – Netanyahu's party and Israel's dominant party) proposed an alliance with Nazi Germany as they saw Great Britain as a larger threat to Jews. They described themselves and their members, I'm not even joking, as "National Bolshevik terrorists" (nazbols/communist nazis). Go figure.
Many of the members of government actively cheered on or committed genocide, and everyone alive knows someone who participated in the displacement and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. The area didn't just go from its population of 90% Muslim and 2% Jewish in 1800, to 81% Muslim and 8% Jewish in 1890, to 32% Jewish in 1947, to 89% Jewish in 1948 (the year the Nakba/ethnic cleansing of Arabs started), using kind words and diplomacy. (Jewish Virtual Library). Europeans encouraged Jews to colonize the area (which hadn't been populated by Jews in large numbers since the 5th century) in order to get them out of the country (the early British Zionists in particular were keen on taking all the Jews in the UK and shipping them off to Israel, as antisemitism was the norm in western Europe until the whole World War 2 thing), and gave those newfound Israelis the weapons to blow up a whole lot of natives. These migrations were simply called Aliyah, and they happened in a few waves.
It is a state that is built upon, and cannot exist without, "Jewish supremacy". It's in the constitution, it's in the law, it's in their flag, it's in the Muslims & Arabs in the country not having the civil rights of Jews, the entirety of Israel exists specifically to be an ethnostate. And the foundation of Israel was by parties who aligned themselves with Nazi Germany, and who took great inspiration from them.
When you're "leftist" – that is, when you're for abolishing unjust hierarchies and moving towards social equality – the concept of Israel and its former and current actions is inherently counter to your ideology. There's absolutely no getting around that.
What words are these, exactly? If they're not slurs then I don't see what you're talking about. Unless you're referring to people talking about microaggressions – which is the linguistic phenomenon of biases against certain social groups being conveyed in language, which propogates harmful beliefs. You know, saying women or asians can't drive well, saying you wouldn't want to have a woman perform surgery on you, saying a guy hugging another guy is gay... obviously those are pretty shitty things to say.
Yeah nah man you're waffling. There is no "old left". The left is more or less the same philisophy-wise; there are socially conservative people and socially progressive people – you, my friend, seem to be describing yourself as a mildly socially conservative social democrat. There's nothing more old or authentic or original about your philosophy – it's just German centrism.
The usage of the term in the social progressive context literally dates back to the 1930s. That's almost certainly older than even your parents. How can you claim that that's characteristic of the "new left" when it's been around in use longer than your country's even existed?
Far as I'm concerned it's ethnostate vs ethnostate. Although I question how a diverse country can be an ethnostate.
Both regions have these roots though, with Gaza still having a terrorist organisation as its government.
again, both regions did. The region at the time was a proxy war between Axis forces and Allies. Israel later sided with Britain, and the Palestinians later sided with the Axis
Hey! You're leaving out the UN resolution to establish two states. Jews had to flee Palestine because the League of Arabs declared war on Israel. To this day, Jews still can't find a home for themselves in arab nations. It was also Palestine and the League of Arabs that refused the two-state resolution. So don't be implying there were no kind words and diplomacy.
uhhh, you do realise that Jews were also native to the area, right? Like long before Muslims colonised.
Can you prove this? From what I've read about their laws, there's nothing mentioning jewish supremacy. That is unless you consider the illegal settlements in the West Bank to be legitimate.
Halbe Bibel ganzer Hurensohn
Wenn du glaubst, dass die progressiven Ansichten deiner Vergangenheit besser sind als der heutigen progressiven, dann sei es so. Aber das macht dich nicht viel besser als einen Konservativen. Zu glauben dass du zu einer besseren ««alten Linken»» gehörst, weil du nicht akzeptieren kannst, dass alle Menschen soziale Befreiung verdienen, macht dich einfach unreif.
Gibt einen großen Unterschied zwischen progressiv und Schwachsinn/Adabsurdum gerade bei Themen wie Gendern oder ähnlichen dummen Ideen die wieder jeder Mehrheit in der Bevölkerung sind. Progressiv ist, sich für die Gleichberechtigung aller Menschen einzusetzen, oder sich für die rechte der LGBT Menschen einzusetzen, wo diese benachteiligt werden, wörter wie Trap verbieten zu wollen oder gar dauerhaft zu gendern ist lächerlich und dem thema abträglich.
Ich bin richtig progressiv und das nicht nur gesellschaftlich, ich setze mich auch vernünftig fürs Klima ein, aber was da einige "Klima Aktivisten" fabrizieren ist lächerlich und wirft ein schlechtes licht auf alle anderen. Oder ständig mit irgendwelchen Quoten zu kommen, Menschen sollten nach Fähigkeiten bewertet werden und nicht nach aussehen, Behinderung(körperlich, wie zum Beispiel ein fehlender arm oder sowas), LGBT Zugehörigkeit oder Mann/Frau. Das ist alles bescheuert.
Du kommst mit "sozialer Befreiung" du hast wahrscheinlich nicht mal die wende miterlebt und kommst mit solchen Begriffen, halt einfach die schnauze und lerne von denen die wissen wie Menschen funktionieren, eure spinner Gruppen erzeugen massive Gegenbewegungen mit viel mehr rückenwind durch eure arrogante unart. Das gendern war von vornherein eine tod Geburt und auch doppelnennungen werden Mehrheitlich abgelehnt, sprache ändert man nicht mit Gesetzen und Zwang (und doch es ist Zwang wenn es von oben herab diktiert wird).
Mein Gott, du bist also im Grunde genommen einfach ein Neokonservativer. Ich bin Linguist und ich kann dir garantieren, dass die Anzahl der Menschen, die das grammatische Geschlecht abschaffen wollen, auf ein paar unbedeutende Leute im Internet beschränkt ist.
Slurs sollten nicht benutzt werden. Punkt. Dass du denkst, tatsächliche Slurs seien in Ordnung, es sei denn, sie sind spezifisch das N-word oder so etwas, sagt viel über dich als Person aus. Offenbar ist dir das Wohl von queeren Menschen nicht besonders wichtig, wenn du es schlecht findest, dass man Menschen daran hindert, Beleidigungen gegen sie zu verwenden.
Die Menschheit wird wahrscheinlich innerhalb der nächsten drei Jahrzehnte wegen des Klimawandels ins Chaos stürzen, und du regst dich über die Leute auf, die Alarm schlagen? Hast du keinen Anstand?? Es ist über ein halbes Jahrhundert her, dass Wissenschaftler und Klimaaktivisten angefangen haben, lautstark auf das drohende Unheil durch den Klimawandel hinzuweisen, aber niemand hört zu. Die Leute kümmern sich nicht um Proteste, wenn diese niemanden stören. Die einzige Aktion, die jemals zu ernsthaften Veränderungen geführt hat, ist die, die den Frieden stört. Wenn ignorante Menschen wütender über einen verdammten Kuchen sind, der auf eine Glasabdeckung geworfen wird, als darüber, dass die Erde in Flammen aufgeht, dann ist das ihr eigenes Problem. Es gibt nichts mehr zu verlieren, wenn man die Leute wütend macht; wir erleben bereits ein Massensterben der meisten Arten auf dem Planeten.
Übrigens, Deutschland ist nicht das einzige Land auf der Welt, und die Berliner Mauer war nicht die einzige soziale Barriere, die existierte. Versuche nicht, die Kämpfe anderer zu minimieren, nur weil du denkst, dass dein Land der Mittelpunkt der Welt ist. Der Progressivismus hat nicht aufgehört, sich weiterzuentwickeln, als Deutschland wiedervereint wurde. Besonders wenn es um LGBTQ-Rechte geht – die Ehe für alle wurde in Deutschland erst 2017 legalisiert, und in Italien ist sie immer noch illegal. Es gibt derzeit einen Trend zu Antitransgesetzgebungen in der westlichen Welt. Ihr Leute wollt so tun, als hätten benachteiligte Gruppen Gleichberechtigung, nur weil Bürgerrechtsgesetze verabschiedet wurden, aber das ist eine Lüge. Du hast nicht mit den sozialen Problemen zu kämpfen, denen diese Gruppen ausgesetzt sind, und trotzdem glaubst du, ihnen sagen zu können, dass ihr Kampf vorbei ist. Du bist ein verdammter Feigling, weil du die Kämpfe dieser Menschen minimierst und auf 'die Gender-Irren' reduzierst. Und du bist ein Feigling, weil du den Völkermord an den Palästinensern im letzten Jahrhundert rechtfertigst, während du dich hinter der Lüge versteckst, dass Angriffe auf Israel «Antisemitismus» seien. Und für all die anderen Gruppen, über die du dich beschweren musst, sei es Einwanderer, Klimaaktivisten, was auch immer. Du bist auf den konservativen Empörungs-Köder hereingefallen und glaubst jetzt ihren Kulturkriegsmüll.
So, at what point should queerness in Palestine should be liberated? Because as you well know, being queer in Palestine is illegal, punishable by death.
Das du linguist bist zeigt sich gut am Unverständnis der Realität.
Und wenn die "konservativen empör köder" einfach tatsächliche Probleme sind (wobei ich die Einwanderung da extra steht) die man ansprechen muss, dann ist es so, soll man jetzt der AFD das feld überlassen was gewisse punkte angeht? Das ist so töricht und falsch, Probleme lösen statt neue zu erzeugen wäre schön. Aber das ein Linguist davon nichts versteht, kann ich mir vorstellen.
Im übrigen ist dein Israel hass genauso ein Punkt der mich an den neulinken ankotzt, wiederwertiger gehts kaum, Netanjahu als nazi bastard zu bezeichnen ist absolut richtig und vernünftig, aber dann gibts Leute die eine Geschichte von apartheid und Genozid zusammenspinnen und die kommen in der Regel von links "woke" oder den ganz rechts außen Schweinen.
Auf mehr von dem mist will ich auch garnicht eingehen. Ist eh nur Halbe Bibel, ganzer Hurensohn 0 Inhalt und rauf auf den strohmann.
DU bist woke. Du laberst die anti gesellschaftliche scheiße die den rechts außen in die Karten spielt.
Jesus Christ my guy. If you willingly look at all this, the history and facts of what Israel did and continues to do to Palestinians, and you still willingly go with the narrative that Israel isn't an ethnostate and isn't committing acts of Genocide, then there is no saving you. The Scholz ministry's propoganda has gone way up there in your head.
Nazis and alt-right nutjobs own the word "woke" as an insult. Being labelled "woke" is a badge of honor, all things considered, because it tells you that the right-wing lunatics really don't like you. You might want to change your strategy because it's genuinely funny to most people when someone uses it as an insult. It sounds like a parody of conservatives from 2014 YouTube. It's even amplified by you apparently thinking linguists (humanities specialists?) are some type of woke lesser.
I'm done with this conversation man. You're going to stay stuck in the 19th century for the rest of your life.
Ah so now back in English.
You don't know shit about reality, you behave like a entitled toddler im nither part of SPD nor like them, they are too Russia and China friendly, you speak a lot of antisemitism and bullshit.
And now, respectfully, FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM!
Nie wieder ist jetzt, ob von "links" oder rechts! Nazis raus aus Deutschland!
Ok I said I was done with talking but this comment in particular is funny. You're really that extremely against the SPD and the German left huh...
Maybe you're the Nazi if we think about it ;) After all, you're on the side of modern genocide. Have you considered that the Nazis got into power because of the centrists, the people "left nor right", refusing to take a stance against Nazism, instead fearmongering over the woke socialists and justifying the rise in power of the right as the left "pushing too far" and being "too radical"? You know, basic civil rights and all that extremist Marxist stuff.... Pretty analogous to what people like you are doing today, don't you think? "Oh what was left extremism then is fine, but what's left extremism now is the end of humanity".
Not that I disagree much of the modern SPD is pieces of shit. Because of their anti-Palestinian rhetoric and lack of action against Russia, not because of their "wokeness". But that's the entire German government, not localized to them.
But okay, okay, now I promise I really won't make a snarky response to your blatantly defamatory insults again. Go off on me. Call me those slurs you were saying were completely fine to use.
I said im against SPD, not left, i literally voted Greens in the EU election. But go on projecting your nazi beliefs onto others.
Fucking shit head nazi.
@[email protected]
as thoroughly entertaining as this whole debacle was. Both of you stop insulting each other, and stop casually using Nazi to describe things you don't like.
You're one of those that believe any criticism of Israel is antisemitic, aren't you?
Fuck Israel, Jews are cool, and fuck you.
Average lemmy world terrorism supporting nazi shitlord. Go fuck yourself you know full well its not criticism to call genocide and what not when a country defends itself. Are you going to scream genocide now that Ukraine invaded Russia? Cause of you do, you are a troll nazi, if not you are a hypocritical nazi.
I am calling Netanjahu a nazi shit head regularly, this doesn't mean Israel should stop a war they didn't start, and anyone wanting that is either a idiot supporting Terrorists unknowingly or a 100% nazi terrorism supporter, and im calling it nazi because hamas and many other islamist terrorists groups are the children of WW2 nazi propaganda, especially anything that has to do with Iran. There is valid criticism, but on lemmy, especially lemmyworld there is just the terrorism supporters or the few people wanting Israel to exterminate the terrorists by all means necessary.
But seeing you get defensive over me calling you people nazi probably very much hits the target perfectly.
Oh, OK. You're completely unhinged and have added nothing to the discourse.
I'm going to stoop to your level before not engaging further: I'm not a Nazi, you're a Nazi! :p
you're a nazi! and you're a nazi!
If Ukraine starts bombing noncombatants at hospitals and schools, blocking food and water, and executing journalists I bet people would call that genocide.