this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2024
360 points (98.6% liked)
Privacy
31990 readers
468 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
Chat rooms
-
[Matrix/Element]Dead
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Very disappointing. Does Apple sell Air Tag data to 3rd parties?
Apple cannot sell your AirTag data, because they don’t know it. It’s all encrypted.
Sure, it's encrypted, but there might be a way for them to decrypt it.
It lives in the same place as your other inaccessible data, which Apple has been unable to produce when served with warrants for iCloud data and the like.
You read the leaflet. Nice.
Not relevant. I was just trying to say that you have to be very gullible to take a company's word at face value.
They say the same thing about some of the other data that they encrypt, but then they store the encryption private keys on their servers.
Encryption doesn't mean they can't see the data. It means only the people with the private keys (and those who can crack the private keys or a device with the private keys) can see the data.
One must know if the data is encrypted both at rest and in transit. What type of encryption is used. Where the private key is stored. And what are the protections in-place where the key is stored
They do outline all of that, explaining how it works. The private key pair and secret are never sent to Apple. And yes, it’s end-to-end encrypted of course.
https://help.apple.com/pdf/security/en_US/apple-platform-security-guide.pdf
Page 202 of you care to learn how it works.
Is the source code public so we can verify the implementation matches the spec?
It's not open source if that's what you mean. If you think that stops people looking at code then I'll have some of what you're smoking please.
If you're genuinely interested in how the Find My system works Here's a good paper on it. The papers publishers even have an open source tool to connect to Apples Find My network which is neat.
With proprietary software you have no way of knowing. Also avoid SaSS (service as a software substitute)
Yes. They all do.
They sell AirTag location data? I honestly find that hard to believe. What's your source on this other than big tech bad?
They don't have one. It's the new "Alexa is spying on you".
AirTag location data is encrypted. Apple doesn’t know where they are.
Right, apple definitely doesn't have access to the info on the products they make and sell to the public.
Do you know how encryption works?
Have you verified their encryption method? Where is the source code? Where is the third party public audit that verifies that it's implemented properly with no other means of access?
Blindly trusting that they say it's encrypted is basically the same as no encryption
On top of being privacy focused themselves, they are only working with AI parters who also pass a third party code review verifying that zero user data is stored.
Shit on Apple for not being repairable, sure. Shit on Apple for their walled garden, sure. But shitting on Apple over privacy is insane. They are they only big tech company that actually cares.
I used to hold the same opinion you do, but after reading this article, reality caught up with me:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html
If you want a shorter version of this that puts the consequences into perspective, I recommend one of Cory Doctorow's blog posts: https://pluralistic.net/2021/05/18/unhealthy-balance-sheet/#think-manorialism
Taking the above behavior into account, Apple's value proposition for anyone that cares about digital sovereignty is extremely brittle. I've decided not to invest any further into their tech. Is it the worst evil that roams earth? No. But does it logically follow that you should defend all their practices? Also no.
After reading the above, it shouldn't surprise your that Apple spies on their users too, if only a bit less than, say, Facebook/Meta: https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/14/luxury-surveillance/#liar-liar
Hope you can approach this with an open mind. I know it's hard, I certainly didn't want to start doubting what I thought was a valiant defender of consumer privacy. Cases like the San Bernardino shooter were testaments for Apple's commitment to me. It turns out that's only half the story though.
Here is the documentation regarding third party verification of their security claims.
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/certifications/apc3cea61877b/web
I’m assuming for some reason this is not good enough for you?
I mean, None of these appeared to specifically be about the air tag. But it is at least does help show a general overall commitment to security. So it's not as if it's not a huge point in favor of trusting that the airtag data is safe
This is made up fantasy land paranoia. Charlie Day with a big board shit.
Yep apple is secretly grabbing data that not one privacy expert has found. Just like those sneaky Alexas that are always listening to me.
Do you know how decryption works?
Yes, only the person with the key can decrypt. Apple doesn’t have the keys.
That's what the NSA said about DES. Fun fact: they were lying.
Learn your crypto war history.
They also "Didn't have them" in the past and then gave them to the NSA. 🙃
Source? As far as I know they didn’t claim to not know location until iOS 17 release. Up until then they could access that info, and were required to give it up provided with warrants. This has been a reason Apple has actively been limiting the data they have access to. They cannot be compelled to give up data they have no way of accessing.