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Lemmy.world Support

Welcome to the official Lemmy.world Support community! Post your issues or questions about Lemmy.world here.

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The lemmy.ml Problem (lemmy.world)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Dear Admins and Users of lemmy.world,

I am writing to express my concerns about the impact of lemmy.ml on our community. It has come to my attention that lemmy.ml frequently disseminates propaganda and engages in historical revisionism. Moreover, there have been instances where their admin privileges were used to suppress dissenting views, reminiscent of the already defederated lemmygrad instance.

While personal blocking of lemmy.ml is an option, it does not address the broader issue of new users potentially being influenced by misleading content. It is crucial that we protect our users from a continuous stream of biased information.

To illustrate these concerns, I have provided a link to a detailed post on the Fediverse that documents these issues comprehensively [Here].

Given these points, I urge the admins to consider a defederation from lemmy.ml. If their users wish to remain part of Lemmy.ml, that is entirely acceptable, but we should take steps to prevent the propagation of harmful misinformation, especially in their comment sections.

Thank you for your consideration.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

As a user subbed to multiple communities there, I never see this stuff. Ever. I stay far, far away from news and current events though. I actively seek news from sources, not aggregation platforms.

I would prefer to have the option to interact with those communities rather than have a few users brigade the admins into defederating. There's a reason one of the SCOTUS cases that is cited as binding precedent in freedom of speech cases relates to the distribution of Communist propaganda. The marketplace of ideas is meant to be freely available to all, not curated by the most opinionated or noisy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

The political content published in lemmy.ml isn't the main problem, it's the fact that lemmy.ml moderators are banning users from general interest communities, including non-political communities, when they criticize China or Russia elsewhere. This happens not only when the criticism is posted within a lemmy.ml community, but also when the criticism is posted outside of lemmy.ml.

The behavior of these lemmy.ml mods corrupts the "marketplace of ideas" that you're describing. lemmy.world should not present or promote general interest communities that only allow users to participate if they avoid making comments critical of China or Russia on the fediverse. This kind of bad moderation creates a chilling effect.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I appreciate your reply. I agree with the principals and ideals, but I just don't get worked up over every bit of outrage out there. I used to be a real worked up individual, willing to throw everything I've got at anything that didn't fit with my ideals, but I'm older now, and sometimes I want places where I don't have to fight for every inch of ground.

I don't disagree that the mod actions are worth highlighting. I disagree that defederation is the first and only solution. It reads to me like some users argued with mods about topics known to be hot-button over there, on a post guaranteed to be controversial, and a temporary ban occurred. That action and its reach is worth discussion.

I don't agree that the users should go to the biggest lemmy instance and try to soap box their POV in order to trigger user outrage in hopes that they pressure the admins to enact some vengeance on an entire instance in the form of defederation. I disagree even more since the source of the outrage is not a user at LW, and wouldn't be affected in any way by the proposed defederation. What they really want is for their subbed communities to move away from ML.

SpaceCadet coming here suing for defederation is barely different to me than the mod that banned them from unrelated communities. "Someone I disagree with did a thing I don't like and I want to flex on them," is what I see from my POV. I don't care they got banned. It seems like a foregone conclusion that would happen there, and I've known that since the first fifty posts about how Dessalines and Nutomic behave (on social media and on github) were posted.

If I follow their weird rules, I won't get banned. The implicit rules include not talking shit about topics cleansed by glorious fascist leaders? OK. I don't care. I have no interest in changing the hearts and minds behind the eyeballs on ML. I'm not on a crusade to fix the world one post at a time. I'm browsing while my game loads, or the water boils, or on the bus.

What I care about is a few idealistic users posting picture evidence of a clear power-trip ban and expecting admins to defederate. That's the corruption of the marketplace of ideas. Silencing the entire instance for thousands. For all we know, half the users on LW would like to learn more about their point of view, if only to dismiss it as wacky and untenable, but not only do they lose that opportunity, they lose the opportunity to engage with unrelated communities, of which there are several that are more active than anywhere else.

At the end of the day, its a lot easier for anyone up in arms about this to block and move on than the workarounds required for the majority who don't care and want to stay engaged in the communities they are subbed to. They'd have to make accounts elsewhere, or even at ML.

Call me apathetic, but I just don't care about this fight.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

While you certainly are free to not care about lemmy.ml mods blocking users from unrelated communities for criticizing China or Russia anywhere on the fediverse, which effectively silences lemmy.world users, there are currently 1,019 upvotes vs. 92 downvotes on the "Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem" post, which suggests that most lemmy.world users who are aware of the issue do care.

Nobody is claiming to be trying to change the minds of lemmy.ml mods. We just don't want to have to worry about whether posting something mildly negative about China or Russia on a post anywhere on the fediverse that somehow catches the attention of lemmy.ml mods will cause us to lose the ability to participate in a community such as [email protected].

Condoning this censorship from lemmy.ml corrupts the "marketplace of ideas" because it distorts the discourse visible on lemmy.world to favor the political preferences of lemmy.ml's mods. This affects every lemmy.world user, whether they block lemmy.ml or not, because there is no way to opt out of the chilling effects other than defederation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

You've got me thinking about it, but I still just come back to, "this doesn't affect me." But it would affect me if LW was to defederate, which has already been discussed dozens of times in the past. If I look at the ML modlog, I just don't see evidence of what is being claimed beyond this incident. Rule 1 is being misused and a mod or mod team are being assholes. That sucks. I don't think it means that the posts and/or visibility of content of thousands are at risk in the way being presented.

currently 1,019 upvotes vs. 92 downvotes [...] suggests that most lemmy.world users who are aware of the issue do care.

I equate that more to the crowd yelling, "yeah!" more so than carefully considered agreement.

Thank you for having this discussion. I'll continue to ruminate on it. If it means anything, when I read the OP by SpaceCadet, I subbed to LW or other large-ish communities for the ones I follow at ML in hopes that they grow.