‘We are damned fools’: scientist who sounded climate alarm in 80s warns of worse to come : climate

[–] [email protected] 68 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Remember all those end of world disaster movies over the past 20 years? ... We're at the middle part of the movie where everyone is denying the few mad scientists who are warning everyone. We also believe that there will be some sort of super hero last minute hail Mary save that will save us from the brink of destruction ... I don't think that will happen tho :(

[–] [email protected] 43 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Except it isn't even a few mad scientists this time

It's a good 99% of scientists

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago

Yet the media treat the other 1% with at least as much deference.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

And like 75%+ of humans.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago

We’re at the part of the movie where the 1%ers and politicians who caused the disaster are giving up on the planet and making plans to run and hide on private islands.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

Just don't look up!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

last minute hail Mary save

Nuclear war and the subsequent nuclear winter would save us. You doomers just aren't willing to think outside the box.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Nuclear winter will definitely cool the planet, especially if hundreds of bombs are used ... but it will mean turning the planet into a snowball.

Nuclear winter will mean destroying most or all plant life for years or decades or even a century. Many people will die either from the bombing or the radiation but the majority will die slow deaths from starvation years after.

Sure there may be some wealthy important people that will hold out in bunkers and underground shelters but once their food supplies run out, they'll have to come out, and when they do, they won't find anything. The survivors will have to raise new generations with far less, even if they do survive living in an irradiated landscape which won't be safe for hundreds of years.

The planet will definitely be cooler .... but it won't be liveable for humans.

This isn't a race to save the planet by cooling it off, the planet's fine. It's dealt with disasters and changes far more destructive than us.

We need to do something about the climate to save ourselves and our species. Nuclear war places us in as much danger of extinction as doing nothing about climate change.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Did I seriously need to put a /s at the end of my comment?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

In this day in age ... Yes, it's almost required.

I felt like you were being sarcastic but I've encountered more than enough people in my life to know that there are people out there who fully believe in what you sarcastically said.

I can't tell any more who is being sarcastic, who is ignorant, who is willfully antagonistic or who is sarcastic anymore. There are far too many people out there who state unrealistic ideas who find like minded people to reinforce one another.

Whenever I write a sarcastic comment on a forum like this, no matter how clearly it is for me or even others .... I always note (sometimes very clearly) that I'm being sarcastic.

There are people out there who will understand your sarcasm.

And there are people out there who will turn your sarcasm into prophesy or gospel.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Don't look up. Just focus on the next 24 hours in front of you!

[–] [email protected] 50 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It’s ok guys a handful of people are gonna profit big time

[–] [email protected] 50 points 11 months ago

[–] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

How are WE the fools???? WE can do absolutely nothing about it and those that can will not.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

How are WE the fools???

We're the fools because capitalism was never going to fix this issue on its own, therefore it came down to the voting populace to become better-educated on this stuff, spread that awareness as much as possible, vote every year for representatives that take CC seriously, and to contact our local / regional representatives as often as possible, asking them what their solutions were.

As the primary mechanism in terms of creating such vital change, we've done a fraction of that over the decades. Now here we are.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You know voters don't get to choose who, or what, is on the ballot, right?

This is a problem of structural power, not individual responsibility.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm talking about group responsibility, not hoping for structural power to solve issues it was never designed to.

In the States, if you're a voter who waits until the last step of the process to vote, then yes-- you get that limited menu of selection. As we've seen, this is a pretty great way to fail to address the real-world problems of unsustainability.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, you're right. It's everyone else's fault, for not being as committed as you are. Too busy keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table or some such trivial nonsense.

Power is the problem. If all you can do is scold people for not being activist enough, all you will ever do is fuck people off.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Hah. Like I'm personally any kind of avatar on this stuff.

No, I'm not scolding anyone-- I'm pointing out how we could have responded effectively to the issue in the past tense, as it now appears we're ruddy-well borked, and pretty much missed ~95% of our biggest opportunities to make effective change. And in case you're wondering, these are hardly my unique thoughts, and in fact are attributable to much smarter, more aware people than I, across a range of science-based and sociological-based platforms & orgs. I'm merely a little canary who happened to be in the room, TBC.

Sure, any individual can say 'well I had my own life, job, interests, etc to pursue and couldn't be bothered with this shite,' but we're talking about the body of people across 40+ years. If they can't understand the forest is on fire or the mountain is about to landslide, then despite whoever their leadership is, in the end it's on them.

Indeed, we still have an absurdly high number of people in the States who don't even understand what ACC actually is, and of course are deeply resentful of the idea that humans had anything to do with it(!)

So blame whatever specific components you like if it makes you feel better, but in the end, it's a fundamental failing of our high-tech, freemarket-capitalism civilisation to address these crises in a reasonably prompt manner.

EDIT: I will of course say this-- if you're late to the game, and if you're late in absorbing and understanding this stuff, then yes... it's indeed a heavy pill to swallow, and I completely understand not feeling like you're personally responsible. And indeed, people in our relative class are barely responsible, compared to the reprehensible wealthy and exploitative corporations, especially those who promote real disinformation, such as the Koch Bros, right-wing extremists, bogus 'think tanks' and so forth.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Patronising, naive, self-righteous bullshit. I've been in this game a lot longer than you have and wagging your fingers at people will get you absolutely nowhere. The problem is power and you need to work on challenging it, not just whining because other people aren't doing enough to challenge it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Well, matey, you're certainly a bundle of fun, yourself... with deep respect to the power of projection.

In closing, may I ask what "game" you're thinking of, and especially-- does it involve understanding what the body of worldwide science orgs have been saying for many decades now..?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

spread that awareness as much as possible, vote every year for representatives that take CC seriously, and to contact our local / regional representatives as often as possible, asking them what their solutions were.

That's the thing, the way governance is supposed to work, is people vote, establish governance, and the governance does all this work. It is literally what they're paid for. If we expect the citizens to do 100% of the work, and their own jobs, we might as well just abolish the entire US government and just govern by some kind of absolute democracy Reddit upvote system.

To the vote every year point, it doesn't work anyways because all the choices are shit and just looking out for their own interests. One can't vote for a magic candidate that doesn't exist. Every billionaire and their corporations makes sure to broadcast constant streams of information at the general population to keep them confused and spending money. Android vs iPhone instead of, "why can't I change my own battery?" Ford vs Tesla instead of, "do I even need a car?" Shitty medical care to ensure that we live in constant fear that our next injury might mean losing our home and living on the street.

Don't try to pass blame onto the citizens of a nation that ensures the citizenry too busy trying to survive to micro-manage everything.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Unfortunately that's a rather idealised view of the way American politics work. In reality, we already know from long experience that American politico-capitalism runs towards exploitation and greed when left to its own devices, as we saw with the monopolies, the robber barons, the horrific exploitation of immigrant labor as seen in the meatpacking industry and mining fields, etc, etc.

Yes, I do hear what you're saying, but reality is reality. However the system was 'supposed' to work as an ideal, in fact it left us in a horrible situation, one in which the primary difference makers were ourselves. Let's also not forget that if the system is 'rigged' the way it is, and we carelessly buy in to it ourselves as consumers, then not only are we failing to hold politicians accountable, but we're also the ones cooperating in feeding the impending catastrophe of unsustainability... across a range of issues stacked on top of CC.

There's also the fact that with America endorsing a pro-big business / wealthy scoundrel such as Nixon, leading to an even worse scoundrel in Reagan, and then failing to recognise the wheels in motion resultant from all that in the 50+yrs since, why then, there's another way the body of American people have essentially failed to make a critical difference.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Who'd have thought that encouraging the general population to just make an effort, educate themselves and act differently wouldn't work?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

And the guy leading the climate talk says science doesn't prove oil has lead to change. He's an oil baron...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Wrong. We can help "flatten the curve".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Is there some useful purpose for the @blahj spambot polluting discussion threads?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I cannot seem to block it, on Kbin right now. So... it is teaching me the error of my ways, I suppose? :-P

(I regret choosing Kbin over Lemmy, and may need to switch if this kind of thing is going to happen constantly. Even now I have strong hopes for Kbin's future but... it just isn't ready yet.)