Oh yeah. Let trump back in and see how that works for them.
this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
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I can't for the life of me understand how these people think. A no vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. Simple as that. Now I'm not excited about Biden but I prefer Biden 100x over Trump and the right wing Christian militia.
It's a choice between someone who will slap you in the face and someone who will shoot you in the groin.
That's not a fair statement. I am sure Trump would shoot you in the groin AND slap you in the face.
People who think Trump won't further exacerbate the situation are deluded. But that's the problem here, these people aren't thinking at all. They either can't make the connection or don't care.
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(6 replies)
Honestly, I think its good to apply this pressure in the moment. This is the people showing some of way they can do. Regardless of the outcome later. I really don't think what they're saying is they'll vote for Trump. But they have to apply pressure somehow.
Exactly. The Biden administration still has time to get things right. But after the last few weeks, I honestly think they don't have any pull on Netanyahu. So he'll suffer the consequences if he doesn't do something else. He has enough options.
Also the only thing Americans can do right now, is to mobilize the same count of people that are dropping out right now. I mean, there's pro and anti Palestine right? Right?
I honestly think they don’t have any pull on Netanyahu
They have some pull, but politically Netanyahu is a dead man walking. The problem is that it's arguably not in the US interest if Israel holds elections now. Someone like Ben-Gvir would become even more influential.
A reminder:
Itamar Ben-Gvir ... is an Israeli lawyer and far-right politician who serves as the Minister of National Security. ... Ben-Gvir, a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has faced charges of hate speech against Arabs and was known to have a portrait in his living room of Israeli-American terrorist Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. ... He was also previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach, which espoused Kahanism, an extremist religious Zionist ideology. ... Under his leadership, the Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power), a party which espouses Kahanism and anti-Arabism, won six seats in the 2022 Israeli legislative election ... He has called for the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel who are not loyal to Israel. Ben Gvir is "widely known for his openly racist, anti-Arab views and activities" ... led several visits to the Temple Mount as activist and member of Knesset, contentious marches through Jerusalem's Old City Muslim Quarter, and set up an office in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood which witnessed several evictions of Palestinians. On 3 January 2023, he visited the Temple Mount where the al-Aqsa Mosque is located, spurring an international wave of criticism that labelled his visit purposely provocative. As a lawyer, he is known for defending Jewish radicals and terrorists on trial in Israel. ... Prior to entering politics, he defended Jews spitting at Christians as a "an ancient Jewish custom". ... Ben-Gvir is married to Ayala Nimrodi... The couple has five children, and they live in the Israeli settlement of Kiryat Arba/Hebron, which is deemed illegal under international law, in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
Thanks for that, I've heard of him but not in so much detail.
Any material action that leads to Trump (or a Trump imitator) returning to office is material support for fascism.
"I'll let fascists take over my country if the liberals here don't stop the fascists in that country over there" is ideological support for fascism.
I interpreted this more as "we'll vote against you in the primary and get angrier when you subvert our votes"
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(15 replies)
I'm sure trump will do better. Take your time when aiming at your own foot...
Ugh.
America is going to re-elect Trump, not having learnt the lesson from last time, and here in Europe our politicians have become complacent again and continued to procrastinate on defense spending. But hey, maybe Ukraine will get the F16s they needed a year ago if they wanted to have any chance of avoiding a stalemate.
But hey, maybe Ukraine will get the F16s they needed a year ago if they wanted to have any chance of avoiding a stalemate.
R has been resisting Ukraine aid. They aren't getting shit if Trump gets in.
This is stupid. Don't throw down an ultimatum you're unprepared to act on. Are they really going to risk a Trump reelection if Biden doesn't follow through? Almost certainly not, and they'd be idiots if they did.
Are they really going to risk a Trump reelection if Biden doesn’t follow through?
I mean yes. Young voters being disappointed with the electoral process and not voting has been a problem for a while, and Biden isn't making it better. Unfortunately yes, they are likely prepared to act on it.
Then in that case, they're idiots, and bear a share of the blame if Trump is reelected.
Biden bears the blame if he LOSES the election to trump. He’s the one running. Its his responsibility to EARN the votes. A ceasefire of an ongoing genocide is a tiny ask from “the most progressive president ever” who also is causing millions of deaths in the US from pretending the pandemic is over, making jokes about not wearing masks, and doing nothing to enforce clean air in schools, businesses, etc.
It’s insane people are more angry at the threat of not voting for biden if he doesn’t do the bare minimum of calling for a ceasefire than being mad at biden for funding a genocide by an apartheid state using.
Yeah true enough, but what I'm saying it's not an empty threat. Some of these much-needed voters will sit out the election if nothing is done about this mess.
That blame cuts both ways. Biden neglecting the progressive leaders if the party is his own undoing. The right is happy to sink centrists, and thats why the US is drifting so far right.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The rallies came one day after a sitting member of Congress, Palestinian-American Rashida Tlaib, released a video that accused her party's leader of supporting a genocide and ended with a sombre promise: "We will remember in 2024."
The admonitions of this disproportionately — but not exclusively — young, progressive, Muslim-American crowd don't appear to represent majority opinion in the United States.
"[It's] the language of votes," said Nihad Awad, executive director and co-founder of the Council on American Islamic Relations, before rattling off a list of swing states with significant Muslim populations.
On the other hand, Biden has negotiated the opening of the humanitarian corridor into Gaza, and has publicly — and repeatedly — urged Israel not to give into vengeful impulses and to protect civilian lives.
Tariq Nayfeh, a medical doctor who attended the Washington rally, said he's hearing horror stories from colleagues and friends in Gaza and the West Bank.
Trump has promised to ban refugees from Gaza and bar immigrants who express sympathy for Hamas, while some other Republicans are proposing legislation to expel Palestinians from the U.S.
The original article contains 1,105 words, the summary contains 169 words. Saved 85%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This comment section should prove a nice starting point for a "if you try to hold Biden to a standard even a tiny bit above 'is not Trump', then that means you genuinely want Trump to win" party soldier/false dichotomy insister blocklist..
What are people supposed to do when each election is close enough that any loss of support means handing over the presidency to an authoritarian wannabe?
I'm sure many would like to hold him to a higher standard, but the risk of ending up with a fascist as president is way too high.
There you go with the false equivalency.
You can support politicians without doing so blindly and unquestioningly. In fact, complacency like yours is one of the main factors that caused the conditions that made something as bizarrely awful as a Trump candidacy viable.
But you have a two party system?
Are you still going to vote dem then and just keep making empty threats about not voting for them while requesting ceasefire?
What are your other options here?
The only option is to continue to vote for the least-bad candidates, and work to change the voting system such that a two party system is no longer inevitable.
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(2 replies)
I see that you're aggressively ignoring the point in favor of the very false dichotomy I'm on the record as fed up with.
To list the thousands of better things to do than either a) reflexively defend Biden no matter how wrong his stance is or b) vote for Trump would take a lot of time and effort better used in other ways than speaking to wilfully deaf ears.
Fortunately, improving my Lemmy experience by adding you to the aforementioned list after adding a user note to remind me why takes significantly less of both than even writing this reply.
You keep avoiding the question. If i don't know the point you're making, I can't be ignoring it.
What is the point you are trying to make here?
I don't care about all the ways you are not making your point, you've listed those already.
The title of the thread reads “no ceasefire, no votes”.
If the Democratic nominee doesn’t win, who wins?
It’s always reduced to a binary choice; a complacency of the mind:
Complacency is “a feeling of smug or uncritical satisfaction with oneself or one’s achievements.” It’s a false belief that you’re doing the right things to advance or improve/maintain your life, when you’re really not. It’s a hostility or antipathy to criticism, self-awareness or soul-searching.
America should strive to do better.
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