this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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Best and worst Horus Heresy books? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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Got into 40K last month and jumped right into Horus Heresy series using that handy reading order chart, wanted to get to Thousand Sons as fast as possible so I could learn about my army and read about the nothing Magnus allegedly did wrong.

Loken’s books were all a solid good time. A bit rushed feeling, book 2 stood out as a drop in quality. Horus felt less like a centuries old wizened war god amongst men and more like big dingus to make the plot happen, as if it couldn’t happen with a character who uses his brain. Book 3 and Eisenstein came back to the fun time.

Thousand Sons though is painfully bad. I’ve powered 60% through, normally I put down a book at 25% if I’m not feeling it and I reeeeaaaally wasn’t feeling it. Have to get through it for the dudes though. I don’t know the nothing he did wrong yet, but I’ll say he and his sons are definitely guilty of being the dumbest and most annoying self proclaimed “geniuses” in the galaxy. Not expecting Hugo Award level quality from this series, but a little effort would be nice.

So the question: which series among the heresy are the best and which are to avoid? Should I bother continuing 1K sons in hopes it improves, or switch to some other dudes?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Thousand Sons was easily one of my favorite HH books, and pairs exceptionally well with Burning of Prospero. I think I finished Thousand Sons in like 2 sittings.

Given that, you may not enjoy the same books I like, but here's a list of what I think are the best HH books. No particular order, and none from the Siege, which is universally excellent.

  • Legion
  • Know No Fear
  • Vengeful Spirit
  • Nemesis
  • The First Heretic
  • Betrayer
  • Tallarn series of novellas
  • Pharos
  • Slaves to Darkness

Also not to argue with you but the Thousand Sons thinking they're all the smartest people in the galaxy but they're really just Space Marines with their heads up their asses is a core element of who they are. It's a genetic inheritance from Magnus and is central to his character.

It's fine that you didn't like the book, and not trying to argue or anything, but that disconnect may be why you didn't like it so much. Every Thousand Son is an unreliable narrator who thinks they kick ass at everything.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm glad you enjoyed Thousand Sons! The size and different flavors of the 40k Novelverse is part of the excitement.

The Sons being up their own asses and not being nearly as smart as they think they are is apparent, my gripe is that we're beaten over the head with that fact for half the book before anything interesting happens.

This full sequence happens 3 times in the first third alone (entering the mountain, the titan, and tentacle hugs):

  1. Ahriman watches as handsome and sexy genius Magnus does something everyone thinks is suicidal/insane
  2. Magnus is in trouble! Thousand Sons onlookers scream/cry/freak out. All is lost! Sexy Primarch-san noooooo
  3. Cut to Magnus’s perspective: “hehe I’m so smart nobody knows how smart I am but me”
  4. Magnus is okay! Rejoice! Ahriman cries tears of joy.

Then the scene where Ahriman and Magnus exposit to Lemuel so we the reader can be spoonfed the history felt like a scene that should've been left in the rough draft. I can't believe self-important Magnus would take such an interest in a rando mortal, even if they are Ahriman's pupil, and so excitedly regale them with the tale of the bird pieces.

I'm powering through and nearly done, it really picks up after the council of Nykea. IMO, the book should've started there as the rest could've been an email. Until then, all on-screen Thousand Sons all horrifically unlikable and not even in a fun way like the Sons of Horus.

Also not arguing and it works for folks. Magnus being an ouroboros of head-to-ass should've worked for me, but McNeil's dialogue pains me even when not trying to make an inherently unlikable person seem sympathetic. Hopefully Abnett can flesh em out in Prospero Burns.

Legion sounds like my next stop after 1K Sons series, but should I read First Heretic->Battle for the Abyss first, or go straight to Legion then Know No Fear?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

First - your post made me laugh out loud, so thank you lol. Great response.

Legion is totally stand-alone and VERY different from Thousand Sons, so it'll be a great next choice I think. Then you can do the First Heretic+ arc if you'd like.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I think perhaps you may be too close to the Thousand Sons for you to enjoy they way they were portrayed. It’s generally considered to be a good book in the series. I can see how it could be a little unenjoyable if you’ve invested in them personally.

I wouldn’t say that they’re portrayed anymore arrogant that some of the other Legions though. Arrogance is a consistent theme throughout the Heresy.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The emperor suffers on that throne and 1000 psykers are sacrificed every day to keep him on it.

The least you can do is read all 67+ warhammer books in the Horus heresy and beyond.

However the inquisition has approved audio books as a valid way to power though on your drives/rides/chores you complete in his name.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

@tuff_wizard @birdcannon Nothing would please me more than read through a 67+ book's worth of events leading to the False Emperor's downfall 🔥

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Oh. So it's heresy you've chosen? The emperor may not be the benevolent ruler we were all lead to believe but if you can think of a better way to survive the horrors of the 41st millennium I'd like to hear it! And no, I won't accept “staying in our own lane and not killing every xenos we come across” as an answer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Oh. So it’s heresy you’ve chosen?

The emperor may not be the benevolent ruler we were all lead to believe but if you can think of a better way to survive the horrors of the 41st millennium I’d like to hear it!

And no, I won’t except staying in our own lane and not killing every xenos we come across as an answer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Oh. So it's heresy you've chosen?

The emperor may not be the benevolent ruler we were all lead to believe but if you can think of a better way to survive the horrors of the 41st millennium I'd like to hear it!

And no, I won't accept “staying in our own lane and not killing every xenos we come across” as an answer.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I alternate between kindle and audiobook for maximum efficiency, thanks Emperor for having the options!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I really enjoy both legion and first heretic. I've heard people say betrayer is great but I'm not up to that one yet.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Angron books are something to look forward to then!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Damnation of Pythos is maybe the worst, and it doesn't really even involve the main plot line. Also some of the anthologies are quite meh, Tales of Heresy, Age of Darkness, Shadows of Treachery and Shattered Legions. The Siege of Terra books in the end are better than most of the ones in the start of the series. Personally I enjoyed the some of the Ultramarine books in the middle: Know No Fear, The Unremembered Empire and Pharos.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At least Siege of Terra is something to look forward to, eh?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The siege series has been pretty good, but it’s a different beast to the Heresy series in many ways.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

@birdcannon , I think what you've discovered is that Graham McNeil just fucking sucks at writing. He has great ideas but his execution is crap.

I've read the main plotline (and main subplotlines) of the HH and the SoT and his books are by far the worst. Some people love his stuff, for example that godawful book Fulgrim , but I can't for the life of me understand why.

False Gods? The first signs of how boring his future books will be.
Fulgrim? Cool and superimportant plot point of the whole HH, so how it is even possible it's so boring?
Mechanicum? Cool story bro, too bad it's boring.
A Thousand Sons? It's one of his better works, but it's still the same author.
Vengeful Spirit? Again, cool ideas and a bit better than A Thousand Sons.

I would have read The Crimson King and The Fury of Magnus, but I mean, I have a limited time on this earth. Why spend it on this guys bad writing?

So, how do you read Graham McNeil? I discovered the most pleasant way of reading him is to lightly skim all the boring ass shit to get the gist of what he's getting at, indulge in the occasional good parts, rinse and repeat.

If you want the whole Horus Heresy you unfortuntately kind of have to deal with this guy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn't look at any of the authors while reading the books, but while reading Thousand Sons (now finished) I was seriously wondering "does this author even like scifi/fantasy?" he has Magnus speaking like you'd imagine some uncaring Hollywood accounting suit would write while pumping out a minimum effort script to cash in on some familiar IP. Magnus and Ahriman alternate between moron and genius as the plot demands. Worst of all, as you said, it's just boring as hell until the end. Checked the author partway and saw he also wrote False Gods, "yep that makes sense." Horus is moron for plot in that too, with all the dialogue someone who doesn't like scifi/fantasy would write to make fun of it.

I wonder if TS is so fondly remembered just because the last 10% is actually good. The Sons coming together for a final stand despite the betrayal of the Emperor and their own primarch, that's all super interesting! If it started at the Council of Nykea chapter, TS would be a great novella.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yup. I'm all with you!

I wonder if TS is so fondly remembered just because the last 10% is actually good. The Sons coming together for a final stand despite the betrayal of the Emperor and their own primarch, that’s all super interesting! If it started at the Council of Nykea chapter, TS would be a great novella.

This is a great take and I agree. I also quite liked the beginning, with the Space Wolves crashing their party and being assholes all around. Made for some nice drama! And another part I remember as being cool is the warp where Magnus is a big idiot and gets tricked by Tzeentch, resulting in the big badaboom.

As for the other books in the series, I followed this reading guide and these are the ones I read. Exclamation point beside the ones I thought were great.

Horus Heresy

  • Horus Rising (!)
  • False Gods
  • Galaxy in Flames (!)
  • Flight of the Eisenstein (!)
  • Fulgrim
  • Legion (!)
  • Nemesis (it is pretty cool but not necessary)
  • Mechanicum (cool to see Mars get corrupted, but not necessary)
  • A Thousand Sons
  • Prospero Burns (!)
  • The First Heretic (!)
  • Know No Fear (!)
  • Betrayer (!)
  • The Unremembered Empire (!)
  • Fear to Tread (if you like Blood Angels, then sure)
  • Pharos (it has some good parts, but yeah, skippable)
  • Scars (!)
  • The Path of Heaven (!)
  • Angels of Caliban
  • Praetorian of Dorn (!)
  • The Master of Mankind (!!!)
  • Wolfsbane
  • Vengeful Spirit
  • Slaves to Darkness
  • The Buried Dagger
  • Tales of Heresy (I only read Blood Game (!) and After Desh'ea (!!!), read The Last Church if you want to read McNeil try his hand at theology and the Emperor)

The Siege of Terra

  • The Solar War
  • The Lost and the Damned
  • The First Wall
  • Saturnine
  • Warhawk
  • Echoes of Eternity
  • The End and the Death Volume 01
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Also, I agree with your assessment of the first four books.

The Flight of the Eisenstein remains one of my favourites.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I would just not continue the Horus Heresy series, it has some gems but your time is probably better spent on non-Black Library series, or at least other 40k series. The only two I'd endorse of what I've read are Betrayer and Prospero Burns, though you may not be a fan of the latter since it's Space Wolves focused, and Leman Russ is probably one of the least consistently written primarchs throughout the heresy even though he's decent in that book. If you do continue then I'll at least pass on the advice I've heard to avoid any Salamanders or Vulkan focused novels because they're supposed to be extremely poor.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I started the horus heresy pretty late and really wanted to get to the siege of Terra books. I found going through the flowcharts and googling "horus heresy minimum reading list" gave me a list of the major arcs of stuff that happens, that is fairly important by the time seige of terra happens. Reading through the responses, I'd say Scars and path of heaven are really good, and also really flesh out the white Scars Legion in a fun way. So far I've really enjoyed the siege though. I'm part way through echoes of eternity and found all the books so far to be a worthwhile read (mortis is very long though). If you do want to skip past it to 40k thousands sons stuff though, the Ahriman Series is a really fun read with some great characters!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The best novel line IMO is The First Heretic, Know No Fear, Betrayer, and Unremembered Empire. They all kinda share the same plot thread even if it's from different perspectives and honestly are probably the best novels in the entire series.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I've just finished Gazghkull Thraka: Prophet of the Waaagh! by Nate Crowley a couple weeks ago, and I enjoyed it immensely! I'd recommend it, feels very Orky lol.

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