this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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Privacy

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I've been using Brave for the past three or so years but I do know that Linux/privacy enthusiasts tend to swear by Firefox. Wanted to get people's thoughts on this topic to see if I should be making a potential switch. Thanks!

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I haven't done an audit of either but here are some points to consider:

  1. Brave is built on top of chromium, so it "by default" exposes lots of new APIs that Google is introducing that make fingerprinting easier if not outright invade your privacy. For example see https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/ and look at the "negative" items. Many of them such as Web NFC, Web Bluetooth and WebUSB API are against because they don't have adequate protections against fingerprinting or other privacy or security concerns. Brave seems to do a pretty good job removing or disarming these APIs but they are basically trying to keep their balance on a shaky and antagonistic foundation.
  2. On a similar note Google pushing these APIs work because of the greater market share. Again, derivatives can provide some resistance by disabling these APIs but unless all of them block the same APIs they will still be available widespread. So using a Chromium-based browser harms the entire web over time by allowing Google to have control. Right now Firefox (and derivatives) and Safari are the only browsers that you can use to truly oppose Google's control over the web platform.
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Agreed! Many times I faced the fact that the Chrome developers don't follow the W3C standards, but they require it from Mozilla. Therefore, some functionality will only work in Chrome, but not in Mozilla (it's not their bad!).

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (15 children)

Brave has tried one scam after another before. I wouldn't trust it for a second for any use.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Is it more private than brave? Normal Firefox: no Librewolf (Firefox Fork): yes Hardened Firefox: yes

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Good answer. Hardened Firefox or LibreWolf with some extensions are awesome options for privacy!

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[–] sizeoftheuniverse 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As hard as it is for me to admit, and based on some tests, Brave had better fingerprinting resistance than Firefox. I don't trust the guys behind Brave, but their product is good.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Iirc isn't it more like Brave is better out of the box, but given sufficient configuration, both are more or less equal?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Not the point. Using a chromium browser is a vote for Google domination of the web. Just no.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Brave isn't more private than Firefox but depending on the platform that Firefox is on, Firefox might be less secure than Brave.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Still waiting for Firefox Android to be secure enough for me to ditch Brave.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

OOL, what's up with firefox android's app?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

IIRC something along the lines of it not having proper site isolation, making it less secure.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Short version: Firefox on desktop, something chromium-based on Android. See https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/ for the long version!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

For security - yes, chromium-based. But for privacy Mull (Fennec) with extension support would be superior!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I did not find any justification of why they arbitrarily did not considered Gecko browsers in privacyguides. They just made that statement. I am not surprised that certain chromium browsers are more secure simply because Google has a bigger budget, but I did not see any justification for it. Then again the EFF will say that Tor Browser is better then Brave so we can argue about these minor points forever.

Then again none of that minor stuff matters to me. I care more about the goals of the organizations themselves and I am not convinced that any of the Chromium browsers take us down a sane path. So I will be staying with Firefox thank you very much.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

On Android, Firefox is still less secure than Chromium-based alternatives: Mozilla's engine, GeckoView, has yet to support site isolation or enable isolatedProcess.

From this page (which has links to Mozilla if you want to read more)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Thanks, I did not see that before.

Other interesting thing is that about:config is disabled on mobile except maybe nightly. Wonder why?

The other advantage of Brave is that it is more secure out of the box. From privacy point of view that should be better at blending in to the crowd depending on user base size. In Firefox I usually add an extension and configure it and some about:config settings. Somewhat minimal but probably quite unique.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not sure about about:config, though it's the kind of discussion that pops up in [email protected] so you might have better luck asking there.

I never know what to think of Brave. They do seem to have some serious privacy tooling available, but they also seem to get up to so much dodgy behaviour when it comes to money that I don't really trust them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Browsers are very complex and fast moving tech. This means expensive. This implies professional paid staff. Then comes how to raise money. The big companies have revenue streams. Smaller groups have to do it any way they can which is always compromising something.

Mozilla too makes compromises... setting default search to places I would not use. Trying to offer a subscription set of services which is actually not a bad plan but is not exactly to the point. So I trust them more and want to see them succeed but they have challenges too.

Some ways huge parts of tech relies on questionable income streams including the tracking, ad, and personal information broker business. Google of course but Mozilla is funded largely by Google as far as I know. Apple may get similar funding but larger. Microsoft even in Windows installs crapware from partners. So it is everywhere. HP laptops typically do too.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

By default? I think so.

https://privacytests.org/

(these test are done with browsers at their defaults). Librewolf is on par with Brave, but I vehemently hate its interface and refuse to unfuck it wasting my time on CSS.

I'm on Brave as well since 2021, after almost 20 years of being an avid FF user and supporter. I don't like how FF is evolving and what Mozilla is doing and I don't buy the "Chromium domination" argument. If the sole reason to use FF is that "it is not Chromium", well, the developers aren't doing a great job.

However, let's be real: privacy on a browser matters until you go to whatever website that track you on the server side (Google/Facebook/Youtube/Whatever), or when you write an email from from you Gmail account, or when you buy stuff on Amazon... And so on. Just use the browser that works best for you and don't be paranoid.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Don't forget that https://privacytests.org/ is run by a Brave employee!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

That hasn't do anything with the results. You can test everything yourself. Techlore also made a interview with him.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Engywuck do you mind expanding on this? Genuinely curious: “I don’t like how FF is evolving and what Mozilla is doing”

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