this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
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Work Reform

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

This article is just the same sentence over and over again. Must be those lazy millenials copy-pasting in their computers again.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 18 hours ago (8 children)

Are we really trying to make this of all things a generational thing? Why?

It depends on the job, if you have to say open a store then 10 min late is a problem. You have to say make a thing, then 10 mins is not an issue as long as the thing is done.

I have seen people with no respect for other peoples time (so they where late often) and they where not of a single generation but more commonly of a class (the people with means tend to think they can be late).

[–] [email protected] 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

I used to have to open a fishing pier at 5:30am. A line of angry fisher people at the gate will tighten you up real quick. I let everyone in for free if I was 10 minutes late, but I was more so motivated not to be late.

These were the people who were fishing as a source of food and/or bait for later fishing for food. I got to know them and wasn't late often because that would be shitty. They got to know me and knew I was working 3 jobs and going to college. So, they were sympathetic when it did happen.

Life, man, turns out it ain't all simplistic generational platitudes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I wish more people saw the world this way.

Every time someone divides an attitudes by generations.

Every time someone divides driving capabilities by make of car.

Every time someone divides work ethic by race.

Every time someone divides action by class.

There are good people and bad people and everything in between and they are not tied to specific demographics.

You can witness a trend, but it does not define anything.

People are just people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Tesla drivers are shit tho

even before I wanted to translate that over to "Elon's dickriders"

For real though, it's super annoying when people say bs like what you did about things you have a choice over. Dividing by race, bad. Dividing because you decided to get a raised short bed pickup truck with HIDs...well those people chose to be assholes. Same with Matt gaetz supporters of which there are thousands. They chose to support a rapist in multiple elections despite the evidence. I'm cool dividing people up by choices.

In this case parent poster chose to overcommit and the people at his work chose to forgive that. I got no issue with that.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

It depends on the job,

I am surprised how much this point is lost on the other commenters

[–] [email protected] 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Its wild that people can think a whole ass batch of people (a generation) thinks being 10 min late to anything is not a bad thing. Like if you show up to meet someone and they are 10 min late, its not the end of the world but if it happens every time you are going to judge that person.

I don't think jobs should be tied to timecards (I hate time keeping systems, I had to fix some) but to job requirements.

Some examples: Office work normally does not matter until it does. I once worked in a banks head office and had to at or shortly before 7:30am tell all the ABMs to change to the next business day (this would cause them to go offline briefly) and pull the reports for that day. If I was 10 min late the reports would not be there on time for 8am where they are needed for another task a co worker is expected to do before the bank opens (at 8am in some places).

Any retail store that has some respect for their employees and customers needs people to not be late, showing up 10 min late might just mean rushing to open or relieve some co-worker but that also is likely increasing the risk of accidents. I don't think its fair that someone gets to work an extra 10 mins or wait to buy whatever for 10 mins just because some one thinks "eh, 10 mins is close enough"

Task based jobs on the other hand (say programming, maintenance, sales, repair centres, etc.) should not really matter as much. When you start is less important then if you meet a deadline when finished. I used to work a job that wanted me to "start" every day at 7:42 AM (we used time units of 1/10th an hour) but would get real pissy when I did not leave my house until 8:30 or so since the stuff I was working on was in places that did not open until 9 or 10 am. They told me I should go to an arbitrary location (a warehouse or McDonalds where the examples they gave) by 7:42am to log in "in order to show I was ready for work". That was stupid and irrational, so I did not do it. But I would also not show up 10 min late if I could help it for any appointment (work or otherwise) since I value my time and the peoples time I am interacting with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

You seem not fun to be around tbh

[–] [email protected] 1 points 31 minutes ago

Odd response, it is mildly insulting yet brings nothing to the discussion.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Why?

It’s a Fortune article. Their whole thing is keeping the class war active and right now a great way to do that is to make the older, capital owning generation, pissed off at the young ones so that they don’t think for a second this whole “widening wealth gap” thing might be unfair and oppressive.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I think the issue is they are not "keeping the class war active" but trying to make the class war into a generational one. I have worked with, for and had worked for me people who are often late and never did I see one age group of people show up more late then another. Hell I have had issues with staff showing up over an hour early and that was only people under 25 so far (not an issue with them doing it, just an issue with feeling I am taking advantage of them).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 17 hours ago

Sorry yeah I used badly unclear language there you are absolutely correct.

I should have said “It’s a Fortune article. Their whole thing is keeping the class war at less than a simmer. They do this here by providing distracting ammo to fuel other wars and blaming [age/race/gender/migrant status] for economic troubles rather than the true oppressive force that is capital.”

Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say before I even wrote it 😅

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Is the work getting done? If so, what does ten minutes matter? Is it about productivity, or just about ensuring that work is sufficiently unpleasant to keep the peasants in their place?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

What else is the overseer supposed to do to justify their position besides add stress and create reasons to not raise wages?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (2 children)

Its probably just what everyone's used to. I work in an ED. Fuck anyone who always turns up late. What does 10 minutes matter? It matters a lot actually. This is shift work. The work is never "done".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

How does one work inside of an erectile dysfunction?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 55 minutes ago

Ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm lemmy welcome to FRAYED PICKLES whistles, whoops, cheers, applause

[–] [email protected] 2 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

What's ED in this context?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 15 hours ago

I was either 10 minutes early or 20 minutes late

A bus ride taking 40 minutes to go to work sucks

But the workplace was great so I don't have much to complain about

[–] [email protected] 16 points 23 hours ago

Work and quality of life > filling time to satisfy timecards

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I am fresh off a rather interesting conversation with my boomer boss. I’m a new manager and I’m working on policy and process. I was basically shut down, told to not bother documenting, that we have a way of doing things and he would spend every day with me for weeks to get it right if he had to.

I asked again, wouldn’t it be easier and more efficient to have these processes documented and accepted rather than force muscle memory? I even offered to document the process during our training sessions but was told that were a small company and no one will look at documentation if we create it (we’re a 2000 employee manufacturing company).

Oh well, I know how to work around obstinance and he’s pretty old.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's crazy. Anyone who is against documentation should not have a job that requires literacy.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (2 children)

Think there's a balance.

I work at a company where they have a documented process for everything. The thing is once some thing is in a document, it's like some written in stone mandate that becomes unchangeable and inflexible. The stuff in the "oral tradition" remains flexible.

Every so often new blood comes along, sees how dysfunctional the documented processes are, and proposes to fix the processes. Now in principle, they are right, but those of us who have been through a few iterations dread the outcome. Invariably the changes they propose to replace stupid existing processes are instead just added to existing processes, because some folks recognize the improvement but no one wants the blame for a mistake caused by leaving the old process behind. So each time we end up with more redundant stupid work.

So while in principle, documented processes are right, sometimes the political reality is stupid.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

Both of you are right.

You meed to document processes. The minute you put them to paper they will be out of date. No one will read them. It has always been so.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

But it does allow you to go, "Ah here's where the process went wrong, step 6 in the SOP. Why don't you use it as a guide for the next one?" It then isn't me vs them, it's me helping them understand the documented process collaboratively.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 14 hours ago

I just started at a new company that really invests time in documenting their processes, but the are poorly made by people that don't understand the process itself and, in some cases, the process itself is poorly planned and has to be changed over and over again, to the point where the DTP looks nothing like what's actually done...

I was instructed to review the documentation you twin myself, but advised the process did not actually describe the process itself....

[–] [email protected] 2 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

That’s precisely what I’m after, and what I’m proposing. I don’t care about the outputs, I care about the process that gets them to us.

Also why they need to be living documents, but if we have to reinvent the wheel every time we need a new one, it slows things down. I should mention, I’m on the IT side.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 18 hours ago

There are Process people and there are Get It Done people. Both are necessary. In their extremes, both are bad. When they work together they can do great things.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago

Well then the boomer bitches can pay enough for us to live 10-15 mins from work, not a 2 hr drive in rush hour. This close eyed brutal existence they are forcing on us is about to implode on them. The barbarians kicked over the oil, they dropped their torches into it, and they are currently sharpening sticks to roast the ruling class with. This is not a damn game. You stole our lives from us, now we want yours. (The actual life, not your quality of living)

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 day ago (3 children)

It depends on the job. For most office jobs, I don't think it matters that much if you show up a bit late to go to the bank or if you're stuck in traffic, especially now that holding online meetings are easy.

But for a job where being late means holding up the work of hundreds of people, say, being an actor on set, then showing up ahead of time is very important.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 23 hours ago

When I got my first office job (after working retail and the like), I was uncomfortable when people would have a conversation and not be productive. It was burned into me that one should work at all times while "on the clock." I learned the phrase, "time to lean is time to clean," when working at a restaurant.

We really walk on people who work in service jobs. It's not right.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago

What is actually needed is the flexibility to do it.

It really doesn't matter for the task if I'm physically present between 8:15-16:15 instead of 8:00-16:00.

If I have to be at my desk at 8 sharp, I will hit the rush hour both ways, having to leave my home at least 20 minutes earlier and waste that time in congestion for no good reason. I'll be home about the same time, because the only difference is how long I get to stare at the steering wheel.

I don't care if the one option that saves me 1-2 hours of unpaid time every week is considered "tardy" by boomers. In my gen-x point of view, a lot of their lifestyle is wasteful for no other reason than selfmade "traditions".

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (5 children)

Used to be a phone salesman. Got there at least 15 minutes late every day. It got so bad that one time I got there 15 minutes early and when my boss saw me get there he shouted "Steve?! What time is it?!". Nobody cared because I outsold everyone else by so much that I was making double what they were, until the boss of my boss' boss decided to start micromanaging the branch and basically told me I would be fired unless I started showing up on time. Boomers have weird priorities.

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